5 ms·

FWIW, all of the things you mentioned are probably highly determined by genetics.

by toasterlovin 8y ago

naasking 8y ago
You think abs/a good physique and humour aren't skills you can develop?
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Yeah, pretty much. The person I responded to didn't mention physique, which can be influenced by lifting weights. Diet works to a certain degree (ie, you can avoid most of the really bad stuff and you will see improvements, but you probably won't end up as a fitness model). I think there's a good chance that the ability to stick to a diet is highly influenced by genetics, as evidenced by the fact that dieting is a notoriously poor long-term intervention, even though it is incredibly simple in concept. The person I responded to specifically mentioned abs. Having visible abs requires an incredibly low level of body fat, which is not achievable my most people unless they take performance enhancing drugs of some kind. But, you know, the people selling programs and methods for achieving abs have a vested interest in this not being widely known. As for sense of humor. I dunno. I guess you're probably funnier when you're in a specific state of mind (at ease, not stressed out, etc.). And I guess you can memorize some jokes and gags. But in my personal experience, funny people all tend to be funny in unique ways. As in, there's no way they learned their particular brand of humor from somebody else.
  - naasking 8y ago
    > I think there's a good chance that the ability to stick to a diet is highly influenced by genetics, as evidenced by the fact that dieting is a notoriously poor long-term intervention, even though it is incredibly simple in concept. This conclusion is based on data with very poor controls. The success of dieting depends entirely on its macro and micronutrient composition. Dieting also has poor long-term success because people see it as a temporary measure, and not as a lifestyle change as they should, ie. this is how I should be eating from now on. It's no wonder they revert back to previous body composition with that mindset. Studies have also shown people vastly underestimate the number of calories they eat. There are numerous studies that demonstrate that people who stick to a fixed nutrition plan of X meals per day with decent portion sizes, and no snacking outside of meal times, easily maintain their weight long term. This doesn't require superhuman genetics or some kind of iron clad will power, your body compensates for small fluctuations above or below your caloric target. Which isn't to say there are no more mysteries in nutrition science, but the basics are well understood and simple to adhere to. Most people just don't want to. I was in that group a little over a year ago. > The person I responded to specifically mentioned abs. Having visible abs requires an incredibly low level of body fat, which is not achievable my most people unless they take performance enhancing drugs of some kind. Well that's completely false. Abs are visible at body fat levels as high as 15%, depending on the underlying musculature. At 10-12%, even that's no longer a factor. These body fat levels are readily achievable. 10-15% is also easily sustainable and not "incredible" by any stretch. You can get abs just with a good diet without any exercise at all in fact. Edit: go ahead and google image search "skinny abs" for plenty of pictures of skinny people with abs. You're telling me they're all on performance enhancing drugs? > But in my personal experience, funny people all tend to be funny in unique ways. Which they learned through life experience. Mimicking relatives and friends, seeing and retaining what they and others did that made people laugh. If you decide to one day change and become funny, these kinds of observations followed by trial and error are exactly how all the funny people you know became funny. Ask any comedian if their jokes just come naturally to them via genetic inspiration, or if they have to actually work at it. They'll tell you how many times they've bombed on stage.
    - toasterlovin 8y ago
      You're treating humans like simple physics formula: change a variable on one side of the equation and the other side of the equation changes in kind. Humans don't work like that, though, because we have brains which adapt our behavior to our circumstances. You say (emphasis mine): > Which isn't to say there are no more mysteries in nutrition science, but the basics are well understood and simple to adhere to. Most people just don't want to. That's the catch, isn't it? You can't just write that off. Motivation is part of the equation.
      - gamblor956 8y ago
        Motivation isn't genetic, which was the key thrust of your earlier argument.
        toasterlovin 8y ago
        Of course it is. Here's a link for you: https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-work-ethic-genetic https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-work-ethic-genetic First Law of Behavior Genetics: All human behavioral traits are heritable. https://www.scribd.com/document/203690269/Three-laws-of-Behaviour-Genetics https://www.scribd.com/document/203690269/Three-laws-of-Beha...
        naasking 8y ago
        Third Law: * A substantial portion of the variation in complex human behavioral traits is not accounted for by the effects of genes or families. In other words, neither genes nor your family environment while growing up can account for a substantial portion of your adult behaviour.
      - naasking 8y ago
        > You're treating humans like simple physics formula: change a variable on one side of the equation and the other side of the equation changes in kind. Energy balance is a simple physics equation. Yes there are adaptations as I noted in my previous post, but they don't change this basic fact, merely how conveniently it's achieved. > That's the catch, isn't it? You can't just write that off. Motivation is part of the equation. Sure, and why not make the initial conditions of the Big Bang part of the equation while you're at it? Then nothing is your fault or within your control, and you can just do whatever you want and blame god for the way things are. Dismissing personal responsibility in your life is not a valid option. Your citations down below demonstrate that roughly 50% of variation in personality are heritable. Relinquishing the other 50% of your personal responsibility is a sure way to ensure that nothing changes.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    Getting abs is much easier than you believe. I have visible abs and I eat pizza, burgers, and fried chicken each week. I take no drugs, except the caffeine that comes in my soda, nor do I naturally have a high metabolism (my abs weren't visible when I was younger). I got visible abs by balancing what I eat, lifting weights, and running. What matters at the end of the day is having the discipline to either control your diet, your physical activity, or both.
loco5niner 8y ago
Abs and sense of humor determined by genetics? Surely you jest.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Given how desirable abs are and how few people have them, how is it plausible that they are merely the result of effort? Surely if all you had to do was follow X program for Y months, most men would have abs. But they don't. Similar situation for humor. Women consistently rate a sense of humor as one of the key things they are attracted to. Yet most men are not funny. Surely if all you had to do to be funny was follow X program for Y months, most men would be Dave Chappelle. But they're not. Probably because being funny is some kind of an indicator of intelligence that can't be developed or faked easily. And that's probably why women are attracted to it: it's a reliable, genuine indicator of genetic quality.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    > Given how desirable abs are and how few people have them, how is it plausible that they are merely the result of effort? Surely if all you had to do was follow X program for Y months, most men would have abs. But they don't. As someone who has been fat in what feels like a different life, and today enjoys a developed athletic physique, I find your comment ridiculous. It sounds like the kind of self-delusion an overweight, unfunny person engages in to feel better about themselves while avoiding the challenge to be healthier, more attractive, or have a better personality. People are lazy, lack discipline, and are surrounded by poor choices, these are the dominant factors.
    - toasterlovin 8y ago
      Sorry, there are parallel threads going, so I'm going to abandon this one. That said, I misspoke slightly here and rather than rehashing everything, I'll point you to my response to naasking.
  - loco5niner 8y ago
    > Surely if all you had to do was follow X program for Y months, most men would have abs. But they don't. Discipline, determination, motivation vs laziness? This is pretty true for success in anything. Eat less, exercise more -> better body. Spend less than you earn -> better financial stability. Etc. Certainly there are some who could never have abs. I doubt it's very many though.
swat535 8y ago
> all of the things you mentioned are probably highly determined by genetics - citation needed Please do explain to us how super genes are required for one to develop abs or a sense of humour. As someone who was seriously skinny and out of shape and managed to develop abs through consistent training and dieting, I disagree with this. Sure, it is easier to develop abs if you are already in a normal BMI and have your diet under control, but after reading all your comments on this threat, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that one can't achieve those unless they have some special genetics. Sounds more like an excuse one makes for himself to throw his hands up in the air and call it a day rather than actually implementing diligence and self-control.

FWIW, all of the things you mentioned are probably highly determined by genetics.

naasking 8y ago

You think abs/a good physique and humour aren't skills you can develop?

toasterlovin 8y ago
Yeah, pretty much. The person I responded to didn't mention physique, which can be influenced by lifting weights. Diet works to a certain degree (ie, you can avoid most of the really bad stuff and you will see improvements, but you probably won't end up as a fitness model). I think there's a good chance that the ability to stick to a diet is highly influenced by genetics, as evidenced by the fact that dieting is a notoriously poor long-term intervention, even though it is incredibly simple in concept. The person I responded to specifically mentioned abs. Having visible abs requires an incredibly low level of body fat, which is not achievable my most people unless they take performance enhancing drugs of some kind. But, you know, the people selling programs and methods for achieving abs have a vested interest in this not being widely known. As for sense of humor. I dunno. I guess you're probably funnier when you're in a specific state of mind (at ease, not stressed out, etc.). And I guess you can memorize some jokes and gags. But in my personal experience, funny people all tend to be funny in unique ways. As in, there's no way they learned their particular brand of humor from somebody else.
- naasking 8y ago
  > I think there's a good chance that the ability to stick to a diet is highly influenced by genetics, as evidenced by the fact that dieting is a notoriously poor long-term intervention, even though it is incredibly simple in concept. This conclusion is based on data with very poor controls. The success of dieting depends entirely on its macro and micronutrient composition. Dieting also has poor long-term success because people see it as a temporary measure, and not as a lifestyle change as they should, ie. this is how I should be eating from now on. It's no wonder they revert back to previous body composition with that mindset. Studies have also shown people vastly underestimate the number of calories they eat. There are numerous studies that demonstrate that people who stick to a fixed nutrition plan of X meals per day with decent portion sizes, and no snacking outside of meal times, easily maintain their weight long term. This doesn't require superhuman genetics or some kind of iron clad will power, your body compensates for small fluctuations above or below your caloric target. Which isn't to say there are no more mysteries in nutrition science, but the basics are well understood and simple to adhere to. Most people just don't want to. I was in that group a little over a year ago. > The person I responded to specifically mentioned abs. Having visible abs requires an incredibly low level of body fat, which is not achievable my most people unless they take performance enhancing drugs of some kind. Well that's completely false. Abs are visible at body fat levels as high as 15%, depending on the underlying musculature. At 10-12%, even that's no longer a factor. These body fat levels are readily achievable. 10-15% is also easily sustainable and not "incredible" by any stretch. You can get abs just with a good diet without any exercise at all in fact. Edit: go ahead and google image search "skinny abs" for plenty of pictures of skinny people with abs. You're telling me they're all on performance enhancing drugs? > But in my personal experience, funny people all tend to be funny in unique ways. Which they learned through life experience. Mimicking relatives and friends, seeing and retaining what they and others did that made people laugh. If you decide to one day change and become funny, these kinds of observations followed by trial and error are exactly how all the funny people you know became funny. Ask any comedian if their jokes just come naturally to them via genetic inspiration, or if they have to actually work at it. They'll tell you how many times they've bombed on stage.
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    You're treating humans like simple physics formula: change a variable on one side of the equation and the other side of the equation changes in kind. Humans don't work like that, though, because we have brains which adapt our behavior to our circumstances. You say (emphasis mine): > Which isn't to say there are no more mysteries in nutrition science, but the basics are well understood and simple to adhere to. Most people just don't want to. That's the catch, isn't it? You can't just write that off. Motivation is part of the equation.
    - gamblor956 8y ago
      Motivation isn't genetic, which was the key thrust of your earlier argument.
      - toasterlovin 8y ago
        Of course it is. Here's a link for you: https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-work-ethic-genetic https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-work-ethic-genetic First Law of Behavior Genetics: All human behavioral traits are heritable. https://www.scribd.com/document/203690269/Three-laws-of-Behaviour-Genetics https://www.scribd.com/document/203690269/Three-laws-of-Beha...
        naasking 8y ago
        Third Law: * A substantial portion of the variation in complex human behavioral traits is not accounted for by the effects of genes or families. In other words, neither genes nor your family environment while growing up can account for a substantial portion of your adult behaviour.
    - naasking 8y ago
      > You're treating humans like simple physics formula: change a variable on one side of the equation and the other side of the equation changes in kind. Energy balance is a simple physics equation. Yes there are adaptations as I noted in my previous post, but they don't change this basic fact, merely how conveniently it's achieved. > That's the catch, isn't it? You can't just write that off. Motivation is part of the equation. Sure, and why not make the initial conditions of the Big Bang part of the equation while you're at it? Then nothing is your fault or within your control, and you can just do whatever you want and blame god for the way things are. Dismissing personal responsibility in your life is not a valid option. Your citations down below demonstrate that roughly 50% of variation in personality are heritable. Relinquishing the other 50% of your personal responsibility is a sure way to ensure that nothing changes.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  Getting abs is much easier than you believe. I have visible abs and I eat pizza, burgers, and fried chicken each week. I take no drugs, except the caffeine that comes in my soda, nor do I naturally have a high metabolism (my abs weren't visible when I was younger). I got visible abs by balancing what I eat, lifting weights, and running. What matters at the end of the day is having the discipline to either control your diet, your physical activity, or both.

loco5niner 8y ago

Abs and sense of humor determined by genetics? Surely you jest.

toasterlovin 8y ago
Given how desirable abs are and how few people have them, how is it plausible that they are merely the result of effort? Surely if all you had to do was follow X program for Y months, most men would have abs. But they don't. Similar situation for humor. Women consistently rate a sense of humor as one of the key things they are attracted to. Yet most men are not funny. Surely if all you had to do to be funny was follow X program for Y months, most men would be Dave Chappelle. But they're not. Probably because being funny is some kind of an indicator of intelligence that can't be developed or faked easily. And that's probably why women are attracted to it: it's a reliable, genuine indicator of genetic quality.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  > Given how desirable abs are and how few people have them, how is it plausible that they are merely the result of effort? Surely if all you had to do was follow X program for Y months, most men would have abs. But they don't. As someone who has been fat in what feels like a different life, and today enjoys a developed athletic physique, I find your comment ridiculous. It sounds like the kind of self-delusion an overweight, unfunny person engages in to feel better about themselves while avoiding the challenge to be healthier, more attractive, or have a better personality. People are lazy, lack discipline, and are surrounded by poor choices, these are the dominant factors.
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    Sorry, there are parallel threads going, so I'm going to abandon this one. That said, I misspoke slightly here and rather than rehashing everything, I'll point you to my response to naasking.
- loco5niner 8y ago
  > Surely if all you had to do was follow X program for Y months, most men would have abs. But they don't. Discipline, determination, motivation vs laziness? This is pretty true for success in anything. Eat less, exercise more -> better body. Spend less than you earn -> better financial stability. Etc. Certainly there are some who could never have abs. I doubt it's very many though.

swat535 8y ago

> all of the things you mentioned are probably highly determined by genetics - citation needed Please do explain to us how super genes are required for one to develop abs or a sense of humour. As someone who was seriously skinny and out of shape and managed to develop abs through consistent training and dieting, I disagree with this. Sure, it is easier to develop abs if you are already in a normal BMI and have your diet under control, but after reading all your comments on this threat, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that one can't achieve those unless they have some special genetics. Sounds more like an excuse one makes for himself to throw his hands up in the air and call it a day rather than actually implementing diligence and self-control.