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“The government knows how to segregate us properly” And “Everything will be cheaper by limiting people the ability to trade”

wooter 8y ago
I find it sad how prevalent this mentality is. the cost to technology and progress is immeasurably vast.
pjc50 8y ago
qv the other thread on meaningless work, sometimes people find value in living in a city and neighborhood that isn't completely focused on extracting the maximum economic value at any cost.
- wafflesraccoon 8y ago
  Side point, what does `qv` mean at the start of your comment? I can't find anything with 30 seconds of Googling.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Sorry, "quod videt", I should just write "see also"
- DINKDINK 8y ago
  >people find value in living in a city and neighborhood that isn't completely focused on extracting the maximum economic value at any cost. More power to them. But why should we use violence means against peaceful people?
  - pjc50 8y ago
    What does violence have to do with any of this, unless some of the noise-related altercations are getting out of hand?
    - kinsomo 8y ago
      > What does violence have to do with any of this, unless some of the noise-related altercations are getting out of hand? I think this guy is one of those hyper-libertarians who equates government regulation with violence.
      - DINKDINK 8y ago
        >hyper-libertarians Pacifist, anarchist, libertarian call it whatever you will; at the end of the day you are supporting a system where peaceful people will either be imprisoned or have their property stolen if you don't do what men with guns tell you to do.
kinsomo 8y ago
> “The government knows how to segregate us properly” The government is great place to balance competing interests, especially if it's more democratic. > And “Everything will be cheaper by limiting people the ability to trade” That's missing the point. The goal with regulations like these isn't to make things "cheaper," but to control negative externalities. There's more to life than the price of goods. Unfortunately, prices are easy to quantify and that fact irresistibly draws certain kinds of people blind themselves to all non-quantitative observations and engage in the McNamara fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy
- DINKDINK 8y ago
  >The goal with regulations like these isn't to make things "cheaper," but to control negative externalities. Seeing as the proponents -- of regulations regarding who can trade what with whom -- first cited issue is "Affordability", categorically, yes, these regulations are about making things "cheaper". >The government is great place to balance competing interests, especially if it's more democratic. How successful has the US government been at balancing trillion dollar bailouts for the banking/political class and endless wars of murder? Building a system where the minutia of liberty can be taken away with a stroke of a pen unless millions of dollars are spent lobbying the political class is not what I'd call a "great place to balance competing interests".
  - kinsomo 8y ago
    > Seeing as the proponents -- of regulations regarding who can trade what with whom -- first cited issue is "Affordability", categorically, yes, these regulations are about making things "cheaper". > How successful has the US government been at balancing trillion dollar bailouts for the banking/political class and endless wars of murder? Building a system where the minutia of liberty can be taken away with a stroke of a pen unless millions of dollars are spent lobbying the political class is not what I'd call a "great place to balance competing interests". It's not very promising to start a conversation by ignoring the actual circumstances under discussion, so you can get on your hobby-horse to rail against your favored straw men. So, as a helpful reminder, we're talking about a specific set of Japanese regulations meant to help people who are annoyed because they never chose to live next to a hotel room. We're not talking about hotel costs and we're certainly not talking about US bank bailouts.
pixl97 8y ago
Me: Then get rid of zoning laws first. Property owners: OMFG! it's the end of the world, what about my property prices!

wooter 8y ago

I find it sad how prevalent this mentality is. the cost to technology and progress is immeasurably vast.

pjc50 8y ago

qv the other thread on meaningless work, sometimes people find value in living in a city and neighborhood that isn't completely focused on extracting the maximum economic value at any cost.

wafflesraccoon 8y ago
Side point, what does `qv` mean at the start of your comment? I can't find anything with 30 seconds of Googling.
- pjc50 8y ago
  Sorry, "quod videt", I should just write "see also"
DINKDINK 8y ago
>people find value in living in a city and neighborhood that isn't completely focused on extracting the maximum economic value at any cost. More power to them. But why should we use violence means against peaceful people?
- pjc50 8y ago
  What does violence have to do with any of this, unless some of the noise-related altercations are getting out of hand?
  - kinsomo 8y ago
    > What does violence have to do with any of this, unless some of the noise-related altercations are getting out of hand? I think this guy is one of those hyper-libertarians who equates government regulation with violence.
    - DINKDINK 8y ago
      >hyper-libertarians Pacifist, anarchist, libertarian call it whatever you will; at the end of the day you are supporting a system where peaceful people will either be imprisoned or have their property stolen if you don't do what men with guns tell you to do.

kinsomo 8y ago

> “The government knows how to segregate us properly” The government is great place to balance competing interests, especially if it's more democratic. > And “Everything will be cheaper by limiting people the ability to trade” That's missing the point. The goal with regulations like these isn't to make things "cheaper," but to control negative externalities. There's more to life than the price of goods. Unfortunately, prices are easy to quantify and that fact irresistibly draws certain kinds of people blind themselves to all non-quantitative observations and engage in the McNamara fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy

DINKDINK 8y ago
>The goal with regulations like these isn't to make things "cheaper," but to control negative externalities. Seeing as the proponents -- of regulations regarding who can trade what with whom -- first cited issue is "Affordability", categorically, yes, these regulations are about making things "cheaper". >The government is great place to balance competing interests, especially if it's more democratic. How successful has the US government been at balancing trillion dollar bailouts for the banking/political class and endless wars of murder? Building a system where the minutia of liberty can be taken away with a stroke of a pen unless millions of dollars are spent lobbying the political class is not what I'd call a "great place to balance competing interests".
- kinsomo 8y ago
  > Seeing as the proponents -- of regulations regarding who can trade what with whom -- first cited issue is "Affordability", categorically, yes, these regulations are about making things "cheaper". > How successful has the US government been at balancing trillion dollar bailouts for the banking/political class and endless wars of murder? Building a system where the minutia of liberty can be taken away with a stroke of a pen unless millions of dollars are spent lobbying the political class is not what I'd call a "great place to balance competing interests". It's not very promising to start a conversation by ignoring the actual circumstances under discussion, so you can get on your hobby-horse to rail against your favored straw men. So, as a helpful reminder, we're talking about a specific set of Japanese regulations meant to help people who are annoyed because they never chose to live next to a hotel room. We're not talking about hotel costs and we're certainly not talking about US bank bailouts.

pixl97 8y ago

Me: Then get rid of zoning laws first. Property owners: OMFG! it's the end of the world, what about my property prices!