5 ms·

'Agent' or 'representiative' will usually do it faster. But I hear you. I recently wanted to change the ownership of my cellphone account. "Change ownership",

'Agent' or 'representiative' will usually do it faster. But I hear you. I recently wanted to change the ownership of my cellphone account. "Change ownership", "It sounds like you want to change cellphone plans, is that correct?", "Agent", "Okay, let me get you to a representative". The only tasks these things are equipped to do, are the tasks that I can do via the company's online portal, and in a much less frustrating manner. I wonder who is actually using these things.

gear54rus 8y ago
It's likely that these are for company itself. Ain't no one got time to deal with questions that are already explained on the website. This is made to filter mindless or lazy drones who don't want to search and its totally fair.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  In other words, paying customers
- mpweiher 8y ago
  So make getting to an agent at least as difficult as figuring out the web interface?
- Bartweiss 8y ago
  I've noticed that companies without IVR lines have switched from hold music to recordings that repeatedly list all the things you can handle online instead. It's annoying when my issue isn't on the list, since I'll have to hear it 50 times. And it's incredibly aggravating when my issue is on the list, but the website doesn't actually work right. But it's not hard to understand why it happens.
  - mighty_atomic_c 8y ago
    Oh my Goddess, there is nothing worse than hearing: "It's on the website". Yeah, that's unhelpful if "the website" is a sprawling, vast wasteland. Finding a specific thing on an obese, convoluted site is like trying to find the bucket of ice cream in Siberia. I always check the site first, so if I am calling... it's because your website is pretty bad. So if I do find the thing I need and it is broken, then I call and dodge the idiot AI, and the beleaguered agent or offers the pathetic advice of: "It's on the website". I tell them it doesn't work, and this has led to two outcomes, either the agent tries to do it and it is so broken and fucked up that they tell me that's it's down and I have to call back or try the website days or weeks later, or I am lucky and the agent has to do a tedious task that I would have preferred to do myself online.
  - lotyrin 8y ago
    I was on hold with my insurance to file a claim, the IVR loop said for the third time "Did you know? You can file your claim online!" so I gave in, hung up, went online and all the form asks for is my contact information (phone + email) and my preferred method, so I enter email. I get an email "Hey, I need to contact you so we can proceed, what method would you prefer?" I reply "Email, please" provide the information I assume the rep needs and which the online form should have been able to ask me and offer "What else do you need". "Is there a time I can call you and [go over the script and fill out a form on my computer, as if you'd just stayed on hold hours ago]?" 10/10
    - behringer 8y ago
      I see you too have had to deal with AAA.
- dangrover 8y ago
  This is always annoying because the only reason I would ever call is if I've exhaustively tried every way to use the website and encountered some sort of roadblock/edge case where they tell you to call in.
  - gear54rus 8y ago
    This is stacked against power user just like anything else in this world. Technology is dumbed down for the average user whereas I believe we should strive to make the average user smarter instead. Not happening tho it seems.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  Like when you call an ISP because your internet is down and their recorded message goes "check our website...." well I'd love to but...
EADGBE 8y ago
Or immediately hitting "0" once the prompt begins.
- Jaruzel 8y ago
  Bashing # several times quickly also works on a lot of systems. I always give it a go first time around - when it works, the voice bot typically says 'I didn't understand that, I will connect you with a.. [human]'. Failing that I also resort to answering in one word answers. Bots can't handle any sort of ambiguity. Even when they manage to solve the language-parsing problem, people will still just bark one word answers at anything that looks or sounds remotely non-human[1] because that's how the early AI's trained us. The future-concept of people chatting away to robots is incredibly unlikely because to do that you need a level of empathy for the person/object you are talking to. We've clearly shown so far that we just don't have it for bots. -- [1] Like the 19th century British Explorer shouting English at the natives.
  - EADGBE 8y ago
    Great points, one word answers/commands are, in our minds, the most compatible with a non-human system.
kennydude 8y ago
Mashing # works well too. Usually you'll get it try to say stuff, give up and then say "Thanks, I'll put you through to one of our team"
styfle 8y ago
I think you answered your own question. The people using the automated phone services are the people without internet or even computers. Believe me, they exist ;)
bitwize 8y ago
"CONNECT ME WITH A HUMAN, YOU INFERNAL MACHINE." "Okay, let me get you to a representative."
darpa_escapee 8y ago
I encountered a system that replied in the following way: "I'm sorry, it looks like you want to talk to a representative. You need to answer a few questions first." Very HAL-like.
- RightMillennial 8y ago
  And then when you get to the representative, he proceeds to ask you the exact same questions.
sandworm101 8y ago
>> The only tasks these things are equipped to do, are the tasks that I can do via the company's online portal, and in a much less frustrating manner. I wonder who is actually using these things. Old people. I'm not kidding. I used to do PCI compliance work with call centers. I've listened in on many a call to verify procedures. Call centers deal with an unending stream of older people who cannot or will not use "computers". They want to talk to a person on a phone. The people who are comfortable with the online interface only call when the online interface fails them. Old people go to the telephone first. And there is a growing subset of old people who are functionally illiterate. I don't mean they don't know how to read, I mean their eyesight is diminished to the point that using the computer/phone/tablet is uncomfortable. Or their fingers don't move well enough for a keyboard/touchscreen. The phone is simple and reliable, not requiring either visual or physical dexterity.
- mikec3010 8y ago
  I agree with everything you've said, and I feel really badly for how tech's dark patterns, crappy UX, and removal of humanity have treated the elderly. Even non tech items like opening a bag of chips or box of crackers. I estimate that some packaging must require 40+ lbs to open. And I think of the "how it's made" show and how advanced manufacturing plants are. So they use all this tech to make a box of crackers as cheaply as possible, they have cameras fast enough to find and remove a single dark grain of rice in a torrential stream, but put zero thought into the UX experience and how the user can open the box. It sounds like the simplest "tech fix" for this phone menu is once their account is found, if (age > 60 ) sendToPerson (); Furthermore, you could do "soft" account verification with their number. So if they call from a number that matches an elderly customer, just route it straight to a human, even though numbers can be spoofed it's not going to harm the customer to just assume it's them for that step only and fully verify their acct later.
- lostcolony 8y ago
  You think old people don't just hit zero, pound, or say 'agent', to go to a person, to do the things the phone tree can do? If they don't, is that because they don't know any better, or because they actually want to use the IVR? My guess is either they go straight to a person, or they don't know that's an option. So if I'm correct (and I think the onus would be to prove that old people think differently than everyone else in this regard), these things exist to take advantage of the ignorance of old people to save a company some money. Greaaaat.
gvb 8y ago
If only "Shibboleet" worked: http://xkcd.com/806/ http://xkcd.com/806/ Unpacking it... Haiku: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_%28operating_system%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_%28operating_system%29 Penguin doll: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux Bearded dude with swords: http://blog.xkcd.com/2007/04/19/life-imitates-xkcd-part-ii-richard-stallman/ http://blog.xkcd.com/2007/04/19/life-imitates-xkcd-part-ii-r... which is a recursive reference to XKCD: http://xkcd.com/225/ http://xkcd.com/225/ Shibboleet: Shibboleth from Judges 12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth combined with "leet" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet from hacker culture
- sorokod 8y ago
  Bearded dude touching the blade of shin ken with his fingers - stick to programming bearded dude!
ironjunkie 8y ago
- Phone: Say "representative" to talk to an agent - Me" "REPRESENTATIIIVE" - Phone: Sorry, I didn't get that. Say "representative" to talk to an agent - Me" "REPRESENTATIIIVE" - Phone: Sorry, I didn't get that. let me transfer you to a representative (This specific one happens on United calls, every single time.)

gear54rus 8y ago

It's likely that these are for company itself. Ain't no one got time to deal with questions that are already explained on the website. This is made to filter mindless or lazy drones who don't want to search and its totally fair.

emodendroket 8y ago
In other words, paying customers
mpweiher 8y ago
So make getting to an agent at least as difficult as figuring out the web interface?
Bartweiss 8y ago
I've noticed that companies without IVR lines have switched from hold music to recordings that repeatedly list all the things you can handle online instead. It's annoying when my issue isn't on the list, since I'll have to hear it 50 times. And it's incredibly aggravating when my issue is on the list, but the website doesn't actually work right. But it's not hard to understand why it happens.
- mighty_atomic_c 8y ago
  Oh my Goddess, there is nothing worse than hearing: "It's on the website". Yeah, that's unhelpful if "the website" is a sprawling, vast wasteland. Finding a specific thing on an obese, convoluted site is like trying to find the bucket of ice cream in Siberia. I always check the site first, so if I am calling... it's because your website is pretty bad. So if I do find the thing I need and it is broken, then I call and dodge the idiot AI, and the beleaguered agent or offers the pathetic advice of: "It's on the website". I tell them it doesn't work, and this has led to two outcomes, either the agent tries to do it and it is so broken and fucked up that they tell me that's it's down and I have to call back or try the website days or weeks later, or I am lucky and the agent has to do a tedious task that I would have preferred to do myself online.
- lotyrin 8y ago
  I was on hold with my insurance to file a claim, the IVR loop said for the third time "Did you know? You can file your claim online!" so I gave in, hung up, went online and all the form asks for is my contact information (phone + email) and my preferred method, so I enter email. I get an email "Hey, I need to contact you so we can proceed, what method would you prefer?" I reply "Email, please" provide the information I assume the rep needs and which the online form should have been able to ask me and offer "What else do you need". "Is there a time I can call you and [go over the script and fill out a form on my computer, as if you'd just stayed on hold hours ago]?" 10/10
  - behringer 8y ago
    I see you too have had to deal with AAA.
dangrover 8y ago
This is always annoying because the only reason I would ever call is if I've exhaustively tried every way to use the website and encountered some sort of roadblock/edge case where they tell you to call in.
- gear54rus 8y ago
  This is stacked against power user just like anything else in this world. Technology is dumbed down for the average user whereas I believe we should strive to make the average user smarter instead. Not happening tho it seems.
dawnerd 8y ago
Like when you call an ISP because your internet is down and their recorded message goes "check our website...." well I'd love to but...

EADGBE 8y ago

Or immediately hitting "0" once the prompt begins.

Jaruzel 8y ago
Bashing # several times quickly also works on a lot of systems. I always give it a go first time around - when it works, the voice bot typically says 'I didn't understand that, I will connect you with a.. [human]'. Failing that I also resort to answering in one word answers. Bots can't handle any sort of ambiguity. Even when they manage to solve the language-parsing problem, people will still just bark one word answers at anything that looks or sounds remotely non-human[1] because that's how the early AI's trained us. The future-concept of people chatting away to robots is incredibly unlikely because to do that you need a level of empathy for the person/object you are talking to. We've clearly shown so far that we just don't have it for bots. -- [1] Like the 19th century British Explorer shouting English at the natives.
- EADGBE 8y ago
  Great points, one word answers/commands are, in our minds, the most compatible with a non-human system.

kennydude 8y ago

Mashing # works well too. Usually you'll get it try to say stuff, give up and then say "Thanks, I'll put you through to one of our team"

styfle 8y ago

I think you answered your own question. The people using the automated phone services are the people without internet or even computers. Believe me, they exist ;)

bitwize 8y ago

"CONNECT ME WITH A HUMAN, YOU INFERNAL MACHINE." "Okay, let me get you to a representative."

darpa_escapee 8y ago

I encountered a system that replied in the following way: "I'm sorry, it looks like you want to talk to a representative. You need to answer a few questions first." Very HAL-like.

RightMillennial 8y ago
And then when you get to the representative, he proceeds to ask you the exact same questions.

sandworm101 8y ago

>> The only tasks these things are equipped to do, are the tasks that I can do via the company's online portal, and in a much less frustrating manner. I wonder who is actually using these things. Old people. I'm not kidding. I used to do PCI compliance work with call centers. I've listened in on many a call to verify procedures. Call centers deal with an unending stream of older people who cannot or will not use "computers". They want to talk to a person on a phone. The people who are comfortable with the online interface only call when the online interface fails them. Old people go to the telephone first. And there is a growing subset of old people who are functionally illiterate. I don't mean they don't know how to read, I mean their eyesight is diminished to the point that using the computer/phone/tablet is uncomfortable. Or their fingers don't move well enough for a keyboard/touchscreen. The phone is simple and reliable, not requiring either visual or physical dexterity.

mikec3010 8y ago
I agree with everything you've said, and I feel really badly for how tech's dark patterns, crappy UX, and removal of humanity have treated the elderly. Even non tech items like opening a bag of chips or box of crackers. I estimate that some packaging must require 40+ lbs to open. And I think of the "how it's made" show and how advanced manufacturing plants are. So they use all this tech to make a box of crackers as cheaply as possible, they have cameras fast enough to find and remove a single dark grain of rice in a torrential stream, but put zero thought into the UX experience and how the user can open the box. It sounds like the simplest "tech fix" for this phone menu is once their account is found, if (age > 60 ) sendToPerson (); Furthermore, you could do "soft" account verification with their number. So if they call from a number that matches an elderly customer, just route it straight to a human, even though numbers can be spoofed it's not going to harm the customer to just assume it's them for that step only and fully verify their acct later.
lostcolony 8y ago
You think old people don't just hit zero, pound, or say 'agent', to go to a person, to do the things the phone tree can do? If they don't, is that because they don't know any better, or because they actually want to use the IVR? My guess is either they go straight to a person, or they don't know that's an option. So if I'm correct (and I think the onus would be to prove that old people think differently than everyone else in this regard), these things exist to take advantage of the ignorance of old people to save a company some money. Greaaaat.

gvb 8y ago

If only "Shibboleet" worked: http://xkcd.com/806/ http://xkcd.com/806/ Unpacking it... Haiku: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_%28operating_system%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_%28operating_system%29 Penguin doll: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux Bearded dude with swords: http://blog.xkcd.com/2007/04/19/life-imitates-xkcd-part-ii-richard-stallman/ http://blog.xkcd.com/2007/04/19/life-imitates-xkcd-part-ii-r... which is a recursive reference to XKCD: http://xkcd.com/225/ http://xkcd.com/225/ Shibboleet: Shibboleth from Judges 12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth combined with "leet" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet from hacker culture

sorokod 8y ago
Bearded dude touching the blade of shin ken with his fingers - stick to programming bearded dude!

ironjunkie 8y ago

- Phone: Say "representative" to talk to an agent - Me" "REPRESENTATIIIVE" - Phone: Sorry, I didn't get that. Say "representative" to talk to an agent - Me" "REPRESENTATIIIVE" - Phone: Sorry, I didn't get that. let me transfer you to a representative (This specific one happens on United calls, every single time.)