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> I see what you're getting at, but I think the reason that suicide is linked with mental illness is because it goes against our very nature as living beings.
by fipar 8y ago
> I see what you're getting at, but I think the reason that suicide is linked with mental illness is because it goes against our very nature as living beings.
So does contraception, yet we don't consider people using it mentally ill.
I only say this to imply that "going against our very nature" isprobably not the main reason we link suicide with mental ilness, not to be disrespectful or anything. My mother killed herself so I am not someone to mock suicidal people.
> If anyone as any counter points I'd love to hear them - but for the most part I think suicide stems from mental instability or an otherwise inevitable physical death (terminal illness, old age, etc).
My mother had been diagnosed as depressed so at least part of society deemed her mentally ill, so the link from that to suicide can be made. However, having dealth with a similar diagnosis myself, and having learned to properly cope with it while staying as far away from psychiatric medication as physically possible I am quite skeptic about mental diagnosis.
On "Lila", Robert Pirsig proposes the completely not medical and just-a-personal-theory idea that, however, resonates a lot with me, that "crazy" is a social thing (you're only crazy if we have 'non-crazy' people to compare yourself against) and that taking such people to anthropologists in the hope of helping them find a culture where they would be a better fit could yield better benefits than psychiatry. Personally, while I did not physically relocate to another place, I severed myself from a big part of society that I found harmful and I have been as good as can be ever since (12+ years now).
- g051051 8y ago> So does contraception, yet we don't consider people using it mentally ill. Boy, you got that backwards. Abstinence is what "goes against our very nature as living beings". Contraception allows us to engage in sexual activity without the consequences of unwanted pregnancy or STDs.
- fipar 8y ago> Boy, you got that backwards. Abstinence is what "goes against our very nature as living beings". Contraception allows us to engage in sexual activity without the consequences of unwanted pregnancy or STDs. Where did I mention abstinence? While not my choice, I consider it just one more approach that falls under the 'contraception' umbrella, not sure how you made the link from my sentence to abstinence honestly.
- g051051 8y agoYou didn't mention abstinence...that's the problem. I was arguing against your claim of contraception "go[ing] against our very nature as living beings". Contraception is not going against our nature...it's the opposite, as it allows us to safely satisfy our biological urges. On the other hand, something like abstinence is definitely "against our very nature as living beings".
- fipar 8y agoI think I get your point, and the misunderstanding may be that by "nature as living beings" I went beyond just humans. For the vast majority of living things, avoiding reproduction seems, to me, unnatural, hence it would go against our very nature. Now, from a anthropocentric view of this contraception is quite natural as, like you well explain, it let us satisfy biological urges while reducing the risks and potentially undesired side-effects of them. The point that I tried to make was that being for or against "our nature" does not feel, to me, to be a good measure of mental health.
- okmokmz 8y ago>So does contraception, yet we don't consider people using it mentally ill. I don't think contraception and suicide are in any way comparable. Taking a contraceptive enables to continue having sex, which is perfectly natural, without becoming pregnant. Yes, the fact that you won't become pregnant is "unnatural", but it is used so you can continue to experience a natural part of life with less risk. Suicide, on the other hand, does not have a similar risk/reward, response, or permanence. I could take a birth control pill knowing that I would still be able have a child in the future, and without an extreme response mentally or physically. However, if you point a loaded gun at yourself most people will automatically have an intense response that may include anxiety, fight or flight, fear, and self preservation. I understand the point you're trying to make, and I agree to some extent, but I disagree with that example as a counterpoint to protonimitate's comment
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]