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I didn't dowvote, but my guess for why some have would be: > in most legal systems they do not need any warrant to request this data. From a quick read of you

I didn't dowvote, but my guess for why some have would be: > in most legal systems they do not need any warrant to request this data. From a quick read of your law extract, it doesn't seem to cover that aspect of your original claim (and if it does, I'd warmly suggest you highlighted the controversial bit for those who like me have a hard time grokking through such a long text)

Retric 8y ago
Request does not compel compliance the way a warrant does. Law enforcement is generally allowed to request just about anything just like everyone else.
- gnode 8y ago
  In the UK at least, authorities can access data without a warrant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016#Authorities_allowed_to_access_Internet_connection_records https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016#...
  - mirimir 8y ago
    After the CJEU declared the DRD invalid in 2014, the UK enacted the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act (DRIPA).[0] The CJEU annulled that in 2016, and the UK proposed amendments.[1] However, in January 2018, the court ruled those amendments insufficient.[2] I'm not aware of further developments, and I expect that I'd have seen anything relevant on Wilders, but please do share if I've missed something. 0) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/27/contents/enacted http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/27/contents/enacted 1) https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/30/police-to-lose-phone-and-web-data-search-authorisation-powers https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/30/police-to... 2) https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ruled-unlawful-appeal-ruling-snoopers-charter https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ruled-unlawful-appeal-...
    - terminalcommand 8y ago
      Thank you for sharing the links. But as far as I can understand, the new regulations do not abolish the need to record the data. They only set up safeguards for which data can be used. I think a VPN provider in this case is still obliged to keep logs, albeit only hand them over if the necessary conditions are met. Coming from Turkey, I could not imagine a state, where the communication logs are not saved. But it seems the US does this only through intelligence agencies and does not force the ISPs to keep logs.
- terminalcommand 8y ago
  That's true, moreover in the legal systems I know, prosecutors also have the authority to request such documents that means the documents requested can be used as evidence. If you do not comply with it a judge can compel you to give up the document. In which case you also might get in legal trouble, because you refused the initial request of the prosecutor. Furthermore, at least here in Turkey, communication records are also used in civil cases. For example, in a divorce case, the parties sometimes request the phone log through a judge and prove disloyalty by showing call history and duration of each call.
  - ithkuil 8y ago
    Yes. While details vary between countries and languages, I believe the general interpretation is that a warrant involves a judge.

Retric 8y ago

Request does not compel compliance the way a warrant does. Law enforcement is generally allowed to request just about anything just like everyone else.

gnode 8y ago
In the UK at least, authorities can access data without a warrant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016#Authorities_allowed_to_access_Internet_connection_records https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016#...
- mirimir 8y ago
  After the CJEU declared the DRD invalid in 2014, the UK enacted the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act (DRIPA).[0] The CJEU annulled that in 2016, and the UK proposed amendments.[1] However, in January 2018, the court ruled those amendments insufficient.[2] I'm not aware of further developments, and I expect that I'd have seen anything relevant on Wilders, but please do share if I've missed something. 0) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/27/contents/enacted http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/27/contents/enacted 1) https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/30/police-to-lose-phone-and-web-data-search-authorisation-powers https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/30/police-to... 2) https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ruled-unlawful-appeal-ruling-snoopers-charter https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ruled-unlawful-appeal-...
  - terminalcommand 8y ago
    Thank you for sharing the links. But as far as I can understand, the new regulations do not abolish the need to record the data. They only set up safeguards for which data can be used. I think a VPN provider in this case is still obliged to keep logs, albeit only hand them over if the necessary conditions are met. Coming from Turkey, I could not imagine a state, where the communication logs are not saved. But it seems the US does this only through intelligence agencies and does not force the ISPs to keep logs.
terminalcommand 8y ago
That's true, moreover in the legal systems I know, prosecutors also have the authority to request such documents that means the documents requested can be used as evidence. If you do not comply with it a judge can compel you to give up the document. In which case you also might get in legal trouble, because you refused the initial request of the prosecutor. Furthermore, at least here in Turkey, communication records are also used in civil cases. For example, in a divorce case, the parties sometimes request the phone log through a judge and prove disloyalty by showing call history and duration of each call.
- ithkuil 8y ago
  Yes. While details vary between countries and languages, I believe the general interpretation is that a warrant involves a judge.