6 ms·

The CNN article about his death had this: >Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a sur

by fiblye 8y ago

The CNN article about his death had this: >Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016. I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. With a growing list of famous, financially successful people committing suicide, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help. Or at least be able to talk to their friends/family when they first notice problems instead of hiding it until it's too late. When people first start having these sorts of thoughts and even hint at it to other people, the whole "What are you depressed about? Your life is good" response so many people give only makes it worse, and hopefully it's beginning to go away. Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper.

specialist 8y ago
"...only makes it worse..." I recently initiated a suicide intervention for a loved one. I would like to know what would make it better. Or at least what not to do. I am relentlessly optimistic (cancer survivor, a learned skill). I definitely feel like my efforts here ("talking someone off the ledge") had mixed results at best. Good stuff for other cancer victims. Not so good for depression, suicidal tendencies. Sure, I took careful notes of conversations with the various care providers, professionals. But I don't feel any better equipped to handle the next flare up. PS- RIP Anthony Bourdain. Kitchen Confidential deeply influenced me. My first exposure to his ideas, worldview was a "Trial By Fire" profile on his management style in HBR (?). I loved how he accepted everyone to work in his kitchen, so long as they didn't miss a shift. How it was his crew versus the world, every night.
- throw501 8y ago
  DEF CON 21 - Amber Baldet - Suicide Risk Assessment and Intervention Tactics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfYJE-qCVaM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfYJE-qCVaM Slides https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/Baldet/DEFCON-21-Baldet-Suicide-Intervention-Risk-Assessment-Tactics-Updated.pdf https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/... Extras https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&v=bfYJE-qCVaM&redir_token=-wumCs8eaRWwbPtki835Dp34pJR8MTUyODU0Nzc2OUAxNTI4NDYxMzY5&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.defcon.org%2Fimages%2Fdefcon-21%2Fdc-21-presentations%2FBaldet%2FExtras.zip https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&v=b...
  - specialist 8y ago
    Thank you. That first video is a lot to take in. I'll need to rewatch it. But know that I'm grateful to you for this starting point.
- ethbro 8y ago
  (Aside from the tragedy that is this news) Kitchens are wonderful microcosms of results oriented management. You have a highly mobile and mercenary workforce, many alternate employment opportunities with similar benefits (e.g. none), a clearly defined goal (food, on time), high frequency of repetition and a short time to failure loop (great for learning or improving), a reputation with fickle customers to maintain, and a broader taste zeitgeist one has to chase. It's a hard as nails job, but I learned a lot about management. Also: un- or semi-documented immigrants usually work twice as hard as Americans, for terrible wages, and are the engine of almost every kitchen. So special note and tons of respect to all the people out there sweating to prepare food & improve their and/or their children's lives.
  - danieltillett 8y ago
    Out of curiosity what is a semi-documented immigrant?
    - ethbro 8y ago
      Overstayed on a work visa or another "official at one time" scenario.
      - danieltillett 8y ago
        I am not sure what the practice difference is in this case. Is the way they are treated by the INS any different if caught?
smolder 8y ago
Everyone points to mental Illness. You can't want to die if you're not mentally ill right? But "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" -Jiddu Krishnamurti The illness is not all in the heads of the people killing themselves.
- fipar 8y ago
  Thank you for that wonderful quote.
weliketocode 8y ago
How long ago was a while back? I'd say a grew up in a relatively conservative area, but throughout my entire life, society has recognized the seriousness of suicide and mental health issues.
aaron695 8y ago
> I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. You say after quoting it is getting worse. This might be the problem, we are infantilizing the population. Have we swung too far past the place we need to be? This is a common thread atm amongst most movements, they start out valid, reach their objective, but then what do the zealots which are often very useful to begin with have to do then?
blueprint 8y ago
> Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper. Says who? Maybe if we put everything on that paper the scale would visibly tip but it may be the case that if we could perceive those things as they are such that they could be written down it would exclude the problem's sticking power. By the way we should also confirm it was really depression.
- Eatshitluser123 8y ago
  Lol u think no one has thought of that? You're just soooo much more clever, huh? Keep your stupid opinions to yourself, shiteater.
georgewsinger 8y ago
> Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016. > I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. Not trolling: wouldn't this provide (weak, but nevertheless some) evidence that a "man up" sort of attitude was more effective at combating suicide than our attitude towards it now?
- hsljekskfh 8y ago
  no confounding variables in the last 22 years, i’m sure.
- Toast_25 8y ago
  It may be that the effects we're having now were caused by that "man up" attitude that was going on back then.
  - apearson 8y ago
    Playing devil's advocate but wouldn't the effects have been causing problems in the past as well. The "man up" attitude has been going on for much longer than a single generation. Also do you know of any stats or papers looking at possible connections? Genuinely curious.
- fragmede 8y ago
  Not unless you can control for all the other ills in the world, somehow. Weak evidence is just that; weak. Why not look at other things that happened in 2016 and draw equally valid conclusions? Eg, President Obama's presidency ended in 2016 when the results of the election were announced; the difference between his successor certainly changed national and international attitudes, far more than "man up" is a evidence-based practice that lowers suicide rates, anyway. For any problem, there is an explanation that is simple, easy, and wrong.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
> When people first start having these sorts of thoughts and even hint at it to other people, the whole "What are you depressed about? Your life is good" response so many people give only makes it worse, and hopefully it's beginning to go away. Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper. Personally, I don't really feel the "here's the suicide prevention hotline's number", "you should talk to someone", or "you should see a doctor" lines, which seem to be replacing that, are any better.

by fiblye 8y ago

specialist 8y ago

"...only makes it worse..." I recently initiated a suicide intervention for a loved one. I would like to know what would make it better. Or at least what not to do. I am relentlessly optimistic (cancer survivor, a learned skill). I definitely feel like my efforts here ("talking someone off the ledge") had mixed results at best. Good stuff for other cancer victims. Not so good for depression, suicidal tendencies. Sure, I took careful notes of conversations with the various care providers, professionals. But I don't feel any better equipped to handle the next flare up. PS- RIP Anthony Bourdain. Kitchen Confidential deeply influenced me. My first exposure to his ideas, worldview was a "Trial By Fire" profile on his management style in HBR (?). I loved how he accepted everyone to work in his kitchen, so long as they didn't miss a shift. How it was his crew versus the world, every night.

throw501 8y ago
DEF CON 21 - Amber Baldet - Suicide Risk Assessment and Intervention Tactics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfYJE-qCVaM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfYJE-qCVaM Slides https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/Baldet/DEFCON-21-Baldet-Suicide-Intervention-Risk-Assessment-Tactics-Updated.pdf https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/... Extras https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&v=bfYJE-qCVaM&redir_token=-wumCs8eaRWwbPtki835Dp34pJR8MTUyODU0Nzc2OUAxNTI4NDYxMzY5&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.defcon.org%2Fimages%2Fdefcon-21%2Fdc-21-presentations%2FBaldet%2FExtras.zip https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&v=b...
- specialist 8y ago
  Thank you. That first video is a lot to take in. I'll need to rewatch it. But know that I'm grateful to you for this starting point.
ethbro 8y ago
(Aside from the tragedy that is this news) Kitchens are wonderful microcosms of results oriented management. You have a highly mobile and mercenary workforce, many alternate employment opportunities with similar benefits (e.g. none), a clearly defined goal (food, on time), high frequency of repetition and a short time to failure loop (great for learning or improving), a reputation with fickle customers to maintain, and a broader taste zeitgeist one has to chase. It's a hard as nails job, but I learned a lot about management. Also: un- or semi-documented immigrants usually work twice as hard as Americans, for terrible wages, and are the engine of almost every kitchen. So special note and tons of respect to all the people out there sweating to prepare food & improve their and/or their children's lives.
- danieltillett 8y ago
  Out of curiosity what is a semi-documented immigrant?
  - ethbro 8y ago
    Overstayed on a work visa or another "official at one time" scenario.
    - danieltillett 8y ago
      I am not sure what the practice difference is in this case. Is the way they are treated by the INS any different if caught?

smolder 8y ago

Everyone points to mental Illness. You can't want to die if you're not mentally ill right? But "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" -Jiddu Krishnamurti The illness is not all in the heads of the people killing themselves.

fipar 8y ago
Thank you for that wonderful quote.

weliketocode 8y ago

How long ago was a while back? I'd say a grew up in a relatively conservative area, but throughout my entire life, society has recognized the seriousness of suicide and mental health issues.

aaron695 8y ago

> I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. You say after quoting it is getting worse. This might be the problem, we are infantilizing the population. Have we swung too far past the place we need to be? This is a common thread atm amongst most movements, they start out valid, reach their objective, but then what do the zealots which are often very useful to begin with have to do then?

blueprint 8y ago

> Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper. Says who? Maybe if we put everything on that paper the scale would visibly tip but it may be the case that if we could perceive those things as they are such that they could be written down it would exclude the problem's sticking power. By the way we should also confirm it was really depression.

Eatshitluser123 8y ago
Lol u think no one has thought of that? You're just soooo much more clever, huh? Keep your stupid opinions to yourself, shiteater.

georgewsinger 8y ago

> Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016. > I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. Not trolling: wouldn't this provide (weak, but nevertheless some) evidence that a "man up" sort of attitude was more effective at combating suicide than our attitude towards it now?

hsljekskfh 8y ago
no confounding variables in the last 22 years, i’m sure.
Toast_25 8y ago
It may be that the effects we're having now were caused by that "man up" attitude that was going on back then.
- apearson 8y ago
  Playing devil's advocate but wouldn't the effects have been causing problems in the past as well. The "man up" attitude has been going on for much longer than a single generation. Also do you know of any stats or papers looking at possible connections? Genuinely curious.
fragmede 8y ago
Not unless you can control for all the other ills in the world, somehow. Weak evidence is just that; weak. Why not look at other things that happened in 2016 and draw equally valid conclusions? Eg, President Obama's presidency ended in 2016 when the results of the election were announced; the difference between his successor certainly changed national and international attitudes, far more than "man up" is a evidence-based practice that lowers suicide rates, anyway. For any problem, there is an explanation that is simple, easy, and wrong.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

> When people first start having these sorts of thoughts and even hint at it to other people, the whole "What are you depressed about? Your life is good" response so many people give only makes it worse, and hopefully it's beginning to go away. Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper. Personally, I don't really feel the "here's the suicide prevention hotline's number", "you should talk to someone", or "you should see a doctor" lines, which seem to be replacing that, are any better.