5 ms·

If you’re working in a big group, you’re fighting human nature

10 points by jmorin007 19y ago

xenoterracide 19y ago
didn't pg write an essay on this? or at least is was a major part of one of his essays?
- graywh 19y ago
  At least he gathered some new quotes and anecdotal evidence. I particularly like the "two-pizza" reference.
  - redorb 19y ago
    I enjoyed it enough to add here, for those with out time. I believe both Apple and Amazon (two companies I respect a lot for their version 1.0s) talk about “two-pizza teams” — that is, keeping the team small enough that it can be fed with two pizzas…If the company that made the iPod believes in a two-pizza team, how can you justify putting 90 people in the room?
    - comatose_kid 19y ago
      If the company that made the iPod has a founder who wears a black mock turtleneck, how can you justify not wearing one?
      - rglullis 19y ago
        Because the company doesn't believe that is the black mock turtleneck that is going to work on the product.
  - davidw 19y ago
    (Completely off topic, but "real" pizzas, in Italy, are one per person).
    - graywh 19y ago
      Actually, that's a valid point. "Two-pizza team" could mean 2-5 people depending on how much pizza that really is and how hungry your teammates are.
      - johnrob 19y ago
        Anyone who ate lunch at startup school knows this quite well :)
- deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]
jgrahamc 19y ago
Some time ago I wrote to PG about this very subject: Paul Graham wrote: | Thanks, John. Dunbar's number is more about the size of societies than | the size of a group that can cooperate to complete a task. There the number | is more like 8-12, which I believe prob corresponds to the smallest unit | in an army. Not sure the army is the best analogy since they operate with large amounts of funding and not the same restraints as a start up. Terror organizations are a better analogy since they have to combine team effectiveness with minimal size (for security and finance reasons). This seems a lot like a start up that needs an effective team of the smallest size (for mostly finance reasons). For example, the IRA was divided into 6 to 8 man operational units.
- mxh 19y ago
  FWIW, the smallest US infantry unit is the fireteam, comprised of 4 men. I think it's 2 fireteams to a squad. Sounds like a 2-pizza outfit to me.
bdr 19y ago
The army examples don't mean a lot imo. They have unit sizes across a lot of different scales, so it's not significant that some happen to fall into this range.

10 points by jmorin007 19y ago

xenoterracide 19y ago

didn't pg write an essay on this? or at least is was a major part of one of his essays?

graywh 19y ago
At least he gathered some new quotes and anecdotal evidence. I particularly like the "two-pizza" reference.
- redorb 19y ago
  I enjoyed it enough to add here, for those with out time. I believe both Apple and Amazon (two companies I respect a lot for their version 1.0s) talk about “two-pizza teams” — that is, keeping the team small enough that it can be fed with two pizzas…If the company that made the iPod believes in a two-pizza team, how can you justify putting 90 people in the room?
  - comatose_kid 19y ago
    If the company that made the iPod has a founder who wears a black mock turtleneck, how can you justify not wearing one?
    - rglullis 19y ago
      Because the company doesn't believe that is the black mock turtleneck that is going to work on the product.
- davidw 19y ago
  (Completely off topic, but "real" pizzas, in Italy, are one per person).
  - graywh 19y ago
    Actually, that's a valid point. "Two-pizza team" could mean 2-5 people depending on how much pizza that really is and how hungry your teammates are.
    - johnrob 19y ago
      Anyone who ate lunch at startup school knows this quite well :)
deleted 19y ago
[deleted]

jgrahamc 19y ago

Some time ago I wrote to PG about this very subject: Paul Graham wrote: | Thanks, John. Dunbar's number is more about the size of societies than | the size of a group that can cooperate to complete a task. There the number | is more like 8-12, which I believe prob corresponds to the smallest unit | in an army. Not sure the army is the best analogy since they operate with large amounts of funding and not the same restraints as a start up. Terror organizations are a better analogy since they have to combine team effectiveness with minimal size (for security and finance reasons). This seems a lot like a start up that needs an effective team of the smallest size (for mostly finance reasons). For example, the IRA was divided into 6 to 8 man operational units.

mxh 19y ago
FWIW, the smallest US infantry unit is the fireteam, comprised of 4 men. I think it's 2 fireteams to a squad. Sounds like a 2-pizza outfit to me.

bdr 19y ago

The army examples don't mean a lot imo. They have unit sizes across a lot of different scales, so it's not significant that some happen to fall into this range.