5 ms·

Except BSD even being older than Linux never really took off either in Desktop space or Servers.

pjmlp 8y ago
Thanks AT&T suit and the MIT licensing, lots of companies use BSD derived OSes without giving anything back. Linux only took off thanks to SGI, IBM, HP, Cray seeing value reducing costs from their own in-house systems to something else.
- mundanevoice 8y ago
  Agree with your points about the suit and Licensing. > Linux only took off thanks to SGI, IBM, HP, Cray seeing value reducing costs from their own in-house systems to something else. This seems unfair, Linux took off because it constantly kept getting improved and has more and more developers contributing to it. It didn't only take off because it was cheap, but it kept on improving. Also, the Elitist mindsets of some BSD devs and community go back to harm it. Try contributing to OpenBSD or FreeBSD and compare it with how approachable and relatively easy it is to contribute to Linux is. Also, it's the fault of BSD's to not adopt or change to a better License at getting contributions back to its mainstream. I also have major objections to calling anything more secure. No software is secure, each one of them has bugs. Some are discovered because more and more people use it. It's not like BSDs never had any CVEs ever.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    It is not unfair, because the majority of "developers contributing to it" are on those company payrolls, 8h a day during a full week. It would be just another BSD or Minix if it would be only university students and weekend coders working on it, and we would all keep using Solaris, Aix, HP-UX, Tru64, Ultrix.... As for security issues, it helps that Linus is against disclosing security bugs as such.
    - mundanevoice 8y ago
      > It is not unfair, because the majority of "developers contributing to it" are on those company payrolls, 8h a day during a full week. Why don't the devs at those company contribute to BSD then? Care to reflect on this?
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        MIT license, they don't need to. How much code do you think they got back from Sony, Apple, companies selling routers with BSD on them? Even Google prefers to build their own OS from scratch with MIT license (Fuchsia) than keep on using Linux for that effort. They already reduced GPL use to the bare minimum on Android by removing gcc. Then there was the whole suit which made most companies loose interest to be involved with BSD.
        mundanevoice 8y ago
        FreeBSD uses BSD License, no? Or am I missing something here? https://www.freebsd.org/internal/software-license.html https://www.freebsd.org/internal/software-license.html
        pjmlp 8y ago
        BSD and MIT licenses are almost interchangeable regarding requirements to the code. They even appear as MIT/BSD in many projects.
        mundanevoice 8y ago
        Citations/Examples, please? I always thought these are different.
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Simple Google search. https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/217/what-are-the-essential-differences-between-bsd-and-mit-licences https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/217/what-are-... Relevant part: "o what both the 2-clause BSD license and the MIT license have in common are: Permits use Permits redistribution Permits redistribution with modification Provision to retain the copyright notice and warranty disclaimer In addition the MIT license also explicitly allows: merging publishing sublicensing selling However, all these freedoms are implied by the BSD license, because all these activities can be considered "use" and/or "redistribution" of the software. The practical differences between the 2-clause BSD license and the MIT license are marginal. Which one to pick is mostly up to personal taste. Especially considering that both licenses are considered compatible, so you can take code under one license and use it in a project under the other, as long as you keep the license text around." Yocto has files with such dual license. https://git.congatec.com/yocto/meta-openembedded/blob/fido/meta-efl/classes/efl.bbclass https://git.congatec.com/yocto/meta-openembedded/blob/fido/m...
tannhaeuser 8y ago
What are you talking about? BSD sees plenty of use, for its support of zfs, dtrace, and jails alone. Unless you're heavily invested in the Linux kernel and Linux-only tech, I'd advise to keep your software running on the BSDs as well as Linux to avoid monocultures in your own best interest. The strength of F/OSS is in giving you choice, eg. by providing two (or more) interchangeable, excellent O/S's and compiler suites.
- mundanevoice 8y ago
  I am talking about comparable usage. Do not get me wrong. And it's best for everyone if BSD succeeds because then we have a choice. My pet peeve is that it is incredibly difficult to contribute to BSDs (say OpenBSD) compared to Linux. F/OSS project runs on community contributions and thrives solely on basis of that. I hope they open the process up more so that more and more users contribute to it. Also, essentials things like graphics drivers etc, work properly so that the devs like us start using it as a daily driver and contribute to it's usage.

Thanks AT&T suit and the MIT licensing, lots of companies use BSD derived OSes without giving anything back. Linux only took off thanks to SGI, IBM, HP, Cray seeing value reducing costs from their own in-house systems to something else.

mundanevoice 8y ago
Agree with your points about the suit and Licensing. > Linux only took off thanks to SGI, IBM, HP, Cray seeing value reducing costs from their own in-house systems to something else. This seems unfair, Linux took off because it constantly kept getting improved and has more and more developers contributing to it. It didn't only take off because it was cheap, but it kept on improving. Also, the Elitist mindsets of some BSD devs and community go back to harm it. Try contributing to OpenBSD or FreeBSD and compare it with how approachable and relatively easy it is to contribute to Linux is. Also, it's the fault of BSD's to not adopt or change to a better License at getting contributions back to its mainstream. I also have major objections to calling anything more secure. No software is secure, each one of them has bugs. Some are discovered because more and more people use it. It's not like BSDs never had any CVEs ever.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  It is not unfair, because the majority of "developers contributing to it" are on those company payrolls, 8h a day during a full week. It would be just another BSD or Minix if it would be only university students and weekend coders working on it, and we would all keep using Solaris, Aix, HP-UX, Tru64, Ultrix.... As for security issues, it helps that Linus is against disclosing security bugs as such.
  - mundanevoice 8y ago
    > It is not unfair, because the majority of "developers contributing to it" are on those company payrolls, 8h a day during a full week. Why don't the devs at those company contribute to BSD then? Care to reflect on this?
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      MIT license, they don't need to. How much code do you think they got back from Sony, Apple, companies selling routers with BSD on them? Even Google prefers to build their own OS from scratch with MIT license (Fuchsia) than keep on using Linux for that effort. They already reduced GPL use to the bare minimum on Android by removing gcc. Then there was the whole suit which made most companies loose interest to be involved with BSD.
      - mundanevoice 8y ago
        FreeBSD uses BSD License, no? Or am I missing something here? https://www.freebsd.org/internal/software-license.html https://www.freebsd.org/internal/software-license.html
        pjmlp 8y ago
        BSD and MIT licenses are almost interchangeable regarding requirements to the code. They even appear as MIT/BSD in many projects.
        mundanevoice 8y ago
        Citations/Examples, please? I always thought these are different.
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Simple Google search. https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/217/what-are-the-essential-differences-between-bsd-and-mit-licences https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/217/what-are-... Relevant part: "o what both the 2-clause BSD license and the MIT license have in common are: Permits use Permits redistribution Permits redistribution with modification Provision to retain the copyright notice and warranty disclaimer In addition the MIT license also explicitly allows: merging publishing sublicensing selling However, all these freedoms are implied by the BSD license, because all these activities can be considered "use" and/or "redistribution" of the software. The practical differences between the 2-clause BSD license and the MIT license are marginal. Which one to pick is mostly up to personal taste. Especially considering that both licenses are considered compatible, so you can take code under one license and use it in a project under the other, as long as you keep the license text around." Yocto has files with such dual license. https://git.congatec.com/yocto/meta-openembedded/blob/fido/meta-efl/classes/efl.bbclass https://git.congatec.com/yocto/meta-openembedded/blob/fido/m...

tannhaeuser 8y ago

What are you talking about? BSD sees plenty of use, for its support of zfs, dtrace, and jails alone. Unless you're heavily invested in the Linux kernel and Linux-only tech, I'd advise to keep your software running on the BSDs as well as Linux to avoid monocultures in your own best interest. The strength of F/OSS is in giving you choice, eg. by providing two (or more) interchangeable, excellent O/S's and compiler suites.

mundanevoice 8y ago
I am talking about comparable usage. Do not get me wrong. And it's best for everyone if BSD succeeds because then we have a choice. My pet peeve is that it is incredibly difficult to contribute to BSDs (say OpenBSD) compared to Linux. F/OSS project runs on community contributions and thrives solely on basis of that. I hope they open the process up more so that more and more users contribute to it. Also, essentials things like graphics drivers etc, work properly so that the devs like us start using it as a daily driver and contribute to it's usage.