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Why should he NOT being rude? Has anyone ever answered him in the same way? Has anyone ever publicly explained him that while being a sociopathic nerd he still

Why should he NOT being rude? Has anyone ever answered him in the same way? Has anyone ever publicly explained him that while being a sociopathic nerd he still must comply to some basic rules of conduct like we all do. The guy is willingly putting on and supporting the public image he's got and, obviously, loving it. I know, that he's smart and what not, but why should it be an excuse for being an asshole? I just realised that he reminds me of Taleb.

topspin 8y ago
> Has anyone ever publicly explained him that while being a sociopathic nerd he still must comply to some basic rules of conduct like we all do[?] Yes. Back in 2014 several DebConf attendees publicly confronted Torvalds, quoting some of the outrageous things he's written to/at people and making him explain himself. It makes for some rather cringy moments and there is no evidence it had any meaningful impact on him. You may watch it all here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8
coldtea 8y ago
>Why should he NOT being rude? Has anyone ever answered him in the same way? Several, but no one that mattered enough with respect to Linux for his opinion to matter in return. His OS, his rules. Others can always fork it if they have an issue with that. It seems to have worked fine as a gatekeeping technique for the last 25+ years, even if it hurts some feelings. Linus goes for an in-the-trenches, rough camaraderie, approach, rather than a "professional soft spoken cubicle workers" approach.
- hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
  Linus goes for an in-the-trenches, rough camaraderie, approach He's an outright toxic and abusive person. Characterizing a lack of toxic, abusive behavior as "professional soft spoken cubicle workers approach" is disingenuous.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Well, if he was "outright toxic", then he would have had negative effects on the kernel development. Which I don't see happening. So what people mean with that is not that he actually has a toxic effect, but that they dislike his tone.
    - JakeTyo 8y ago
      This is a malformed argument. Having a 'toxic' personality does not mean he will produce bad code. Two completely different things.
      - coldtea 8y ago
        I didn't say that "toxic = he'll produce bad code". I said that the claim of those saying he's language is toxic is that his language poisons the Linux kernel community development. And yet, I counter-argue, I see it doing just fine, and going from strength to strength, over the last 25 years. If there's any toxicity effect, I wont see it affecting much, if anything. I could accept that it might have led some people who could have otherwise contributed away. But I don't see this having any substantial effect on Linux's development. Perhaps it's even beneficial (since the outcome and results from Linux's development team is better than from any other Unix-like OSS OS, with their supposedly not toxic leaders). If that freedom of language is all it takes to keep Linus happy, and stewarding the project as well as he has done all these decades, then so be it...
glaberficken 8y ago
Taleb sees swearing as a form of signaling when you have acquired a certain "power" that gives you independence from others. He defends that by publicly swearing and being rude you are actually proving your competence. See excerpt here: https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/892370148476190720 https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/892370148476190720

topspin 8y ago

> Has anyone ever publicly explained him that while being a sociopathic nerd he still must comply to some basic rules of conduct like we all do[?] Yes. Back in 2014 several DebConf attendees publicly confronted Torvalds, quoting some of the outrageous things he's written to/at people and making him explain himself. It makes for some rather cringy moments and there is no evidence it had any meaningful impact on him. You may watch it all here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8

coldtea 8y ago

>Why should he NOT being rude? Has anyone ever answered him in the same way? Several, but no one that mattered enough with respect to Linux for his opinion to matter in return. His OS, his rules. Others can always fork it if they have an issue with that. It seems to have worked fine as a gatekeeping technique for the last 25+ years, even if it hurts some feelings. Linus goes for an in-the-trenches, rough camaraderie, approach, rather than a "professional soft spoken cubicle workers" approach.

hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
Linus goes for an in-the-trenches, rough camaraderie, approach He's an outright toxic and abusive person. Characterizing a lack of toxic, abusive behavior as "professional soft spoken cubicle workers approach" is disingenuous.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Well, if he was "outright toxic", then he would have had negative effects on the kernel development. Which I don't see happening. So what people mean with that is not that he actually has a toxic effect, but that they dislike his tone.
  - JakeTyo 8y ago
    This is a malformed argument. Having a 'toxic' personality does not mean he will produce bad code. Two completely different things.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      I didn't say that "toxic = he'll produce bad code". I said that the claim of those saying he's language is toxic is that his language poisons the Linux kernel community development. And yet, I counter-argue, I see it doing just fine, and going from strength to strength, over the last 25 years. If there's any toxicity effect, I wont see it affecting much, if anything. I could accept that it might have led some people who could have otherwise contributed away. But I don't see this having any substantial effect on Linux's development. Perhaps it's even beneficial (since the outcome and results from Linux's development team is better than from any other Unix-like OSS OS, with their supposedly not toxic leaders). If that freedom of language is all it takes to keep Linus happy, and stewarding the project as well as he has done all these decades, then so be it...

glaberficken 8y ago

Taleb sees swearing as a form of signaling when you have acquired a certain "power" that gives you independence from others. He defends that by publicly swearing and being rude you are actually proving your competence. See excerpt here: https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/892370148476190720 https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/892370148476190720