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The dilemma is that leaving social media is increasingly tantamount to leaving society, which is the basis for what remains of politics. On the other hand, the

The dilemma is that leaving social media is increasingly tantamount to leaving society, which is the basis for what remains of politics. On the other hand, the "politics" that occurs on social media is increasingly nothing other than a popularity contest. It seems hopeless.

castlecrasher2 8y ago
It's a personal dilemma, not a societal one. My personal take of social media is similar to yours in that it's a popularity contest and allows people to distract themselves from community, local, or family involvement and from self-improvement.
ryandrake 8y ago
> The dilemma is that leaving social media is increasingly tantamount to leaving society This seems to be an opinion often stated as fact. We all have the power to end the hopelessness. Anyone can take the first step by leaving “social media” behind. You might find that the world indeed goes on without it and is even better/richer!
nogbit 8y ago
Tantamount...not the slightest. Social media is a cesspit that hawks fly over to prey on you. Create tight knit communities (like immediate family) and leave it at that.
jaredklewis 8y ago
> The dilemma is that leaving social media is increasingly tantamount to leaving society Aside from my debilitating addiction to HN, I don't use social media. I have a job, family, large circle of friends, and all the usual attachments to society. I vote and love to debate politics with pretty much anyone interested. How exactly would my attachment to society be improved by more social media? If HN went away tomorrow, would I no longer be a part of society? I have found fruitful, enjoyable political discussion and social media to be more or less incompatible. Twitter and Facebook work great for the purpose of "rallying the base." Tweeting or sharing the latest polemic showing all your friends how truly liberal or conservative you are doesn't do much to bring in converts. But the political bases in the US are quickly approaching max rallied-ness. From here on out is the actually difficult tasks of changing hearts and minds, and that doesn't happen on social media. If you care about politics, the further you get from social media the better.
- natecavanaugh 8y ago
  I dunno about this. I consider HN social media (we are socializing via media of sorts), but even on Facebook, when I post something that I believe validates my perspective, my social graph includes intellectually honest people who chime in with thoughtful counters and we're allowed to have thoughtful dialogues, and have benefited from their influence (as well as those types of discussions in meatspace as well). I've also had less enjoyable discussions in both areas. When I see relatives post things that are flagrantly one-sided or even untrue, I try to engage respectfully and try to offer another take. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I think increasing communication is one of the side effects, and overall, generally a good thing. As I like to repeat often, clarity is more important than agreement, and having more ways to connect with people gives alot more clarity into who they are, as well as valid counters to my own preconceived notions. Sometimes, others viewpoints don't change my mind overnight, but often they either long-term influence more nuance in my own ideas, or even gird my thoughts to a more defensible position. And like any social network, virtual or physical, we all tend to have those oddballs in our lives that are really into watching random things online and sharing them with others, and that to me just means more spice to life. Twitter on the other hand ranges from pointless to toxic when it comes to conversations. It's a broadcast network that by nature narrows positions into extremes, in my experience. Of course, like my real world relationships, I need to do some amount of curation or a break from certain folks or sometimes the entire system, but overall, it's been a net gain for me socially. YMMV :)
- JacksonGariety 8y ago
  I agree that debate cannot occur on social media and it would be better if no one used Facebook; leaving social media certainly sets a good example. But I'm arguing against the sentiment that whatever goes on on Facebook is merely a symptom of politics that occurs face-to-face. We live in a world in which people can form political opinions and vote in elections without ever leaving their house. Today, Facebook might not yet be one of "the usual attachments to society." My point is precisely that social media is increasingly seen as one of the "usual attachments," particularly among younger generations.
pwinnski 8y ago
Leaving social media seems like a form of suicide until you leave social media. As your focus shifts, you start to realize that the world is not as you have believed it to be.

castlecrasher2 8y ago

It's a personal dilemma, not a societal one. My personal take of social media is similar to yours in that it's a popularity contest and allows people to distract themselves from community, local, or family involvement and from self-improvement.

ryandrake 8y ago

> The dilemma is that leaving social media is increasingly tantamount to leaving society This seems to be an opinion often stated as fact. We all have the power to end the hopelessness. Anyone can take the first step by leaving “social media” behind. You might find that the world indeed goes on without it and is even better/richer!

nogbit 8y ago

Tantamount...not the slightest. Social media is a cesspit that hawks fly over to prey on you. Create tight knit communities (like immediate family) and leave it at that.

jaredklewis 8y ago

> The dilemma is that leaving social media is increasingly tantamount to leaving society Aside from my debilitating addiction to HN, I don't use social media. I have a job, family, large circle of friends, and all the usual attachments to society. I vote and love to debate politics with pretty much anyone interested. How exactly would my attachment to society be improved by more social media? If HN went away tomorrow, would I no longer be a part of society? I have found fruitful, enjoyable political discussion and social media to be more or less incompatible. Twitter and Facebook work great for the purpose of "rallying the base." Tweeting or sharing the latest polemic showing all your friends how truly liberal or conservative you are doesn't do much to bring in converts. But the political bases in the US are quickly approaching max rallied-ness. From here on out is the actually difficult tasks of changing hearts and minds, and that doesn't happen on social media. If you care about politics, the further you get from social media the better.

natecavanaugh 8y ago
I dunno about this. I consider HN social media (we are socializing via media of sorts), but even on Facebook, when I post something that I believe validates my perspective, my social graph includes intellectually honest people who chime in with thoughtful counters and we're allowed to have thoughtful dialogues, and have benefited from their influence (as well as those types of discussions in meatspace as well). I've also had less enjoyable discussions in both areas. When I see relatives post things that are flagrantly one-sided or even untrue, I try to engage respectfully and try to offer another take. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I think increasing communication is one of the side effects, and overall, generally a good thing. As I like to repeat often, clarity is more important than agreement, and having more ways to connect with people gives alot more clarity into who they are, as well as valid counters to my own preconceived notions. Sometimes, others viewpoints don't change my mind overnight, but often they either long-term influence more nuance in my own ideas, or even gird my thoughts to a more defensible position. And like any social network, virtual or physical, we all tend to have those oddballs in our lives that are really into watching random things online and sharing them with others, and that to me just means more spice to life. Twitter on the other hand ranges from pointless to toxic when it comes to conversations. It's a broadcast network that by nature narrows positions into extremes, in my experience. Of course, like my real world relationships, I need to do some amount of curation or a break from certain folks or sometimes the entire system, but overall, it's been a net gain for me socially. YMMV :)
JacksonGariety 8y ago
I agree that debate cannot occur on social media and it would be better if no one used Facebook; leaving social media certainly sets a good example. But I'm arguing against the sentiment that whatever goes on on Facebook is merely a symptom of politics that occurs face-to-face. We live in a world in which people can form political opinions and vote in elections without ever leaving their house. Today, Facebook might not yet be one of "the usual attachments to society." My point is precisely that social media is increasingly seen as one of the "usual attachments," particularly among younger generations.

pwinnski 8y ago

Leaving social media seems like a form of suicide until you leave social media. As your focus shifts, you start to realize that the world is not as you have believed it to be.