9 ms·

Suicide rising across the US

109 points by daegloe 8y ago

bifrost 8y ago
If there's ever a reminder to be kind to others and to talk to people who might need help, this is it.
- freedomben 8y ago
  Amen, and thank you for saying this. Simply being kind and smiling can be one of the most powerful things you can do. The kindness of a stranger, even just an anonymous name on the internet, can literally save lives.
  - bifrost 8y ago
    I agree! I'm generally a pretty upbeat person but seeing people smile is still uplifting. I have kinda a naturally scowly face but I try to smile when I'm outdoors and its occasionally contageous.
- Fsp2WFuH 8y ago
  Kindness doesn't solve this problem.
  - pwinnski 8y ago
    Not alone, no. But it doesn't hurt, either. Suicidal urges often last a very short amount of time (ten minutes or so), and for some percentage of people, a kind word at the right time absolutely does make the difference. It may be a small percentage, but it's worth being kind to all.
  - bifrost 8y ago
    I agree Kindness on its own may not do much but shaming, bullying and ostracizing are very deleterious. I'll put it this way - it certainly won't hurt.
User23 8y ago
The article avoids pointing out the obvious, but the map makes it clear this rise is predominantly among white Americans.
- advisedwang 8y ago
  The map absolutely does not make that clear. It could equally be the case that minorities are dying by suicide more in communities where they are totally engulfed by white folks (or folks of any other characteristic that matches the map distribution).
  - ManFromUranus 8y ago
    "where they are totally engulfed by white folks" Too bad they were forced there at gunpoint and not allowed to leave... when will white people learn to stop forcing people into their country, then when they ask to leave, building a wall to keep them in.
    - wtetzner 8y ago
      You're kidding, right? Many people were forced into the US, and not allowed to leave. The descendants of those people are natural-born citizens. It's their country too.
      - ben509 8y ago
        Their ancestors were forced here, but their ancestors are not the ones "engulfed by white folks" which is what the original comment claimed. Now, their descendants may feel like they're being persecuted, because they hear that they are from people who have no apparent reason to lie to them. And they may in fact be killing themselves over it.
      - ManFromUranus 8y ago
        Nobody here now who writes things like "engulfed by white folks" has any knowledge of or claim to any of the events you mentioned. Nobody was forced into the country, nobody is forced to stay here. Nobody is forced to be around white people.
rdtsc 8y ago
Feels awkward posting this but I'll leave it here just in case: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (8255)
- pshin45 8y ago
  And for those who prefer written communication, there's Crisis Text Line[1]: Text 741741 (US only) Disclaimer: I'm a volunteer. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/r-u https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/r-u
  - Waterluvian 8y ago
    Oh man I'm so happy that exists. As a teen I absolutely would not call and talk with a stranger. Found help online. Would have loved to text.
- trampi 8y ago
  Nothing akward about that!
  - ljp_206 8y ago
    I agree. Increasing the visibility of help and reducing the friction to get that help is part of reducing the stigma around mental illness, depression, and suicide. Sure, it's awkward to offer a phone number to a stranger or even a friend in crisis, but imagine how things could be if that wasn't the case.
blhack 8y ago
"Hey kid: did you know that your very being is offensive and actually downright violent towards me and there is nothing you can do about it because it literally has to do with a fundamental aspect of who you are." Absolutely shocking that suicide is up.
- rarec 8y ago
  Strawman aside, the current political climate is certainly growing more hostile and polarized as the societal pendulum swings away. It's probably not a coincidence that most who commit suicide are male and the worst of it are in predominately white states which also just so happen to have lagging economic growth.
- runatmebud 8y ago
  Can you clarify this quotation? What is the source, who is speaking, to whom are they speaking?
  - gedy 8y ago
    I think it's a comment about aggressive identity politics. E.g. male oppression vs females, white vs black as an inate part of being white male, etc
- DannyB2 8y ago
  I don't know why the downvotes. What you say is true.
  - 49531 8y ago
    I feel like I am missing context.
    - DannyB2 8y ago
      Basically one kid (eg, the "bully") says to another kid (eg, the "victim") that the victim's mere existence is deeply offensive to the bully. Hope that helps.
DannyB2 8y ago
THIS IS NOT a politically motivated post. Compare the map in TFA with this map, which I trivially Googled: http://news.gallup.com/poll/203117/gop-maintains-edge-state-party-affiliation-2016.aspx http://news.gallup.com/poll/203117/gop-maintains-edge-state-... It's not a perfect correlation, but to my untrained eye, looking at both maps, it seems to me that red (eg, Republican) states appear to correlate closely with higher suicide states. But please judge and compare the maps for yourself and form your own opinion. Edit, add: one criticism is that the link I got from Google is a 2016 map.
- C14L 8y ago
  https://xkcd.com/552/ https://xkcd.com/552/
  - DannyB2 8y ago
    First, one would establish that there is actually a correlation. If so, then is there a causation? (eg, does being in a red state make one suicidal, or does being suicidal affect one's political views) That seems a bit of a stretch. But if a causation CAN be established, then is there anything that can be done to help people?
    - pitaj 8y ago
      You forgot the third option: are both caused by a third independent variable. For instance, economic situation could influence both political views and mental health.
      - DannyB2 8y ago
        That is true. There could be even other causes. Living in an area with less dense population affects one's outlook in various ways.
      - soundwave106 8y ago
        Another possible correlation is aging populations. Among males at least, suicide is highest among males over 65. (https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml) The "hypothesis" might be that lack of access to good health care among this group (either due to location -- rural health care is not in the best of shape right now from what I can tell (https://news.aamc.org/patient-care/article/health-disparities-affect-millions-rural-us-commun/ https://news.aamc.org/patient-care/article/health-disparitie...) -- or economics) might enhance suicide risk. Access to firearms could be another correlation. Firearms are the leading method of suicide in the United States. The consensus opinion I've heard is that firearms are a lot easier to make an attempted suicide an actual suicide than most other methods. All of these are hypothesis; I doubt we can come to real good conclusions without better data than these summary pages.
CamTin 8y ago
What are they doing right in Nevada?
- DannyB2 8y ago
  What happens in Vegas, stays in YouTube.
- User23 8y ago
  Reasonable cost of living and good jobs.
- tcfunk 8y ago
  The graph is only showing changes in suicide rates. Perhaps Nevada's was already high?
  - saalweachter 8y ago
    Nevada looks to be in the top 10 states by suicide rate. Comparing to this map is interesting: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/... Looking at the map from the article, you might think that NY, IL, WI, OR and WA are all in the same boat, but suicide rate in NY is half that in OR.
  - Tade0 8y ago
    I dug up some stats and Nevada is pretty high on the list.
    - CamTin 8y ago
      The hypothesis being that there is some upper limit to suicide rate that a society will tend to approach asymptotically but never reach?
test6554 8y ago
Without encouraging or condoning this type of behavior, I really wish people had a chance to conduct an exit interview from life. Only after the decision was solidified and all other methods of outreach had failed. The data would be remarkable and might save many lives. World: We're sorry to see you go. Please let us know why you are leaving, and what we could to do make this a better place to live in the future. Thank you for giving us a chance to know you.
- freedomben 8y ago
  I agree. This is actually an unfortunate (but maybe necessary) side effect of the push for "look for the signs." I had a fellow engineer kill himself, and it left a lot of unanswered questions. However, he was very familiar with "the signs" and actively avoided doing things that would have tipped people off. He even pushed code and did some code reviews just hours before he died :-(
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I have attempted suicide. I am frequently suicidal. I don't hesitate to comment on it in forums. I sometimes blog about it. Most people genuinely aren't interested in understanding it. If they understood, they might feel compelled to treat other people better and that isn't on their agenda in most cases, basically.
  - some_account 8y ago
    I understand it. It's not like the world is a super happy place and everybody is like 'why would you want to leave this place - it's amazing!'. Everybody has their own experiences. Their life is unique. Telling other people that they should stick around can even be selfish, depending on what they are going through. However. Living life is a skill, and I believe can you get quite satisfactory skill levels by making hard choices and changing your life for the better until it becomes pretty fine. You may even feel happy. Takes hard work though, and it's very hard to find that energy when you are depressed and your brain is telling you that your problems are unsolvable. But they are not. That's the good news I guess. :)
jagtodeath 8y ago
Just an interesting observation: People with known mental health conditions are twice as likely to poison themselves in a suicide than those without known mental health conditions.
- sp332 8y ago
  Firearms are more popular with men and poison is more popular with women. (edit: source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#Differing_methods_by_gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#...) The charts in the article show that women who commit suicide are more likely to have a known mental health condition than men, so that could explain the correlation.
minikites 8y ago
Reducing firearm ownership would reduce suicides: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/wonkblog/suicide-rates/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/wonkblog/su... The common response is that "people will just find another way" but that's not supported by evidence. >“Anything that builds in delay is working in your favor because that fever-pitch time when you’re actually willing to swallow the poison or pull the trigger is often fairly narrow,” said Cathy Barber, who directs a suicide-reduction campaign at the Harvard School of Public Health.
- sudomake 8y ago
  I've heard that no one attempts suicide twice, but guns make it more likely that their first attempt succeeds
  - minikites 8y ago
    That is also correct: >And for those who did not die, it's likely they would not try to commit suicide again. A 2002 review of 90 studies indicates that more than 90 percent of people who survive a suicide attempt won’t die from a later suicide attempt either.
    - tafycent 8y ago
      The way that's worded makes it sound like they will go on to try again, but are very likely to fail again. It makes sense that that would be the case, but I don't think it's the point you're trying to make.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    > I've heard that no one attempts suicide twice Lots of people attempt suicide more than once, and many of them die by suicide when they try again.
- o203909kd 8y ago
  I am a psychologist and to be honest, I think focusing on methods is well-intended but misguided because it leaves the pain but takes away the mechanism. I'm not convinced that even eliminating firearms completely would reduce suicide rates as much as some think because people would find another means. Even the linked piece states "nobody knows what would happen if firearm availability in the US resembled levels of other developed countries." In countries where firearms aren't as available, other methods are more prevalent. I also think there's a lot of differences between the US and other developed countries along a lot of dimensions other than firearm use. Even if it did reduce suicides, though, what does that leave people with? It's akin to saying "we're going to take away this only out for your pain without addressing your problems." Sure, keeping them alive long enough might allow you to intervene and reduce their pain, but the fact that they are driven to suicide to begin with suggests something failed earlier along the chain. What we want are people who don't feel driven to suicide, not people who are unable to commit suicide.
joshuahedlund 8y ago
Relevant recent SSC post: http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/31/in-search-of-missing-us-suicides/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/31/in-search-of-missing-us...
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adamnemecek 8y ago
The accelerationism of the world is really taking it's toll. I feel like the political and economical system is, idk, a result of over-application of certain tenets that might have been justified in the past but are increasingly less valid but certain forces are clinging to them because these tenets are all they have. It's not just the US, the world feels like such a blur. Very important and fucked up things are happening multiple times daily. Things that don't affect me but a lot of times actually really do. Some thousand year old struggles seem to be getting kicked into the internet age and as a result the whole world is getting involved in local conflicts and is forced to take sides. I legit feel as if some sort of new conception of government, nations, states, rights, is really needed. I don't know what but I'm all ears.
- stnmtn 8y ago
  Try reading Capitalist Realism by Mark Fisher, from what you just said it sounds like you might really like it. He covers a lot of the themes you're talking about in a really approachable way As for what other conception of states can exist, socialism is pretty cool I think
  - babkayaga 8y ago
    Socialism might seem pretty cool for someone willing to ignore the last 100 years of humanity's experience with it.
    - TooBrokeToBeg 8y ago
      Socialism doesn't have to be more than a principle. In fact, every capitalistic system has it in some form. So I think your point is dully contrarian.
    - munk-a 8y ago
      Sorry, are you referring to the dictatorial planned economies of the soviet union?
      - 8y ago
ethbro 8y ago
Something that doesn't get noted enough in the tech community (and surprised me). Farming, fishing, and forestry far outweighs other occupational groups in suicide rates for men [1]. When standardized against population, at a rate of 90.5 per 100,000 people [2]; vs the next highest, construction and extraction (52.5). For comparison, computer and mathematical was at 32.8 for men and 12.5 for women. [1] CDC, 2012 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm [2] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm#modalIdString_CDCTable_1 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm#modalIdS...
- rojobuffalo 8y ago
  I've worked in 2 out of those 3 professions. I'm a little surprised they are at the top of the list. Contact with nature on a daily basis is really refreshing. However, economic struggle in these fields is really bad: low wages, price competition from industrial-scale companies, seasonal instability. Still surprising that those are the top 3.
  - tim333 8y ago
    Farming and the like have always been tough economically - you have to fork out for equipment and land but the income from the crop varies dramatically - good year and there is a glut and the prices drop, bad year not much crop and so on. I think it may be better to either have corporations do it where no one is hurt so bad if they go bust, or a regulated subsidised market like the EU.
m12k 8y ago
Desperation is on the rise. That map of suicides by state looks like a map of "flyover states" that are probably disproportionately hit by the downturn in manual labor jobs.
- smashingfiasco 8y ago
  This. Trade deals like NAFTA totally destabilized (if not disintegrated) industrialized regions of the US. This may not be the only cause of suicide, but it’s part of the story for sure. The coasts don’t care, they seem to celebrate it. What I think those people are missing is that this disease can continue onward and spread throughout.
castlecrasher2 8y ago
I'm not finding any breakdown of suicide rates by age, which would be useful especially comparing to the previous period they measure. In fact, I'm unable to find which exact baseline period and the "rising" period they refer to. The article only states "from 1999 through 2016" but one of their data sources only started collecting data in 2003, in a limited number of states (16 in 2010, 18 in 2014): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Violent_Death_Reporting_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Violent_Death_Reporti... . Others like the NIS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_Cost_and_Utilization_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_Cost_and_Utilizatio...) started collecting earlier, 1988 in this case, and it's unclear how they aggregated this data together. I'm aware that best-case approaches to disparate data such as this is often as good as it gets but I'm uncomfortable with how it's being described without being able to see the methodology the analysts used.
- DanBC 8y ago
  I agree. I find the CDC suicide statistics very hard to work with. Here's something from the UK: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/whoismostatriskofsuicide/2017-09-07 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... In England we have three main tools. 1) Public Health Fingertips: https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health/profile/suicide https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health/pr... 2) The Office for National Statistics: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/suicideinenglandandwales https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... 3) The National Confidential Inquiry into suicide and homicide by people with mental illness: http://research.bmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs/research/centreforsuicideprevention/nci/reports/2017-report.pdf http://research.bmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs/research/centrefor...
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djschnei 8y ago
Young (white) men are completely lost in the US right now. The most exciting thing in the majority of my friends lives right now (23-26 years old) are the current challenges in Fortnite. Everyone is scared of longterm, meaningful relationships and Tinder provides the instant artificial validation to make those long-term relationships seem unnecessary. You're a tryhard if you have serious career aspirations or goals. We go to work during the week to get fucked up on the weekends. The common political/social narrative is that you're "the problem". If you're college educated, you're most likely drowning in debt. Most guys I know actively express feeling stuck in a rut or display behavior that strongly suggests it. This report doesn't surprise me at all. Love him or hate him, agree with him or disagree with him, this is why Jordan Peterson rose to fame so quickly. Guys my age in this country are almost completely aimless and without meaningful purpose. This report doesn't surprise me at all...
- pjc50 8y ago
  > You're a tryhard if you have serious career aspirations or goals Where did this come from, I wonder?
  - djschnei 8y ago
    Lack of purpose I suppose. If I have enough money to pay rent, get trashed with the boys on the weekend, and buy cool things every now and then, why lift more than I need to at work? When my dad was my age he just recently bought a house, got married, had a kid on the way. His effort in growing his small business made tons of sense. For me, if it wasn't for my personal drive to be great at my job - a job which I have a passion for (and I know luck has a lot to do with that) - why would a try harder than I need to? I'm not really responsible for anything, you know?
- krapp 8y ago
  >Young (white) men are completely lost in the US right now. None of the anxiety or malaise you describe in your comment exclusively applies to white people or men, so the parenthetical seems irrelevant.
aquamo 8y ago
It's interesting they didn't mention the high rates amongst veterans. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_veteran_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_veteran...), in 2012 there were 6,500 which seems like enough to get a slice in a pie chart.

109 points by daegloe 8y ago

bifrost 8y ago

If there's ever a reminder to be kind to others and to talk to people who might need help, this is it.

freedomben 8y ago
Amen, and thank you for saying this. Simply being kind and smiling can be one of the most powerful things you can do. The kindness of a stranger, even just an anonymous name on the internet, can literally save lives.
- bifrost 8y ago
  I agree! I'm generally a pretty upbeat person but seeing people smile is still uplifting. I have kinda a naturally scowly face but I try to smile when I'm outdoors and its occasionally contageous.
Fsp2WFuH 8y ago
Kindness doesn't solve this problem.
- pwinnski 8y ago
  Not alone, no. But it doesn't hurt, either. Suicidal urges often last a very short amount of time (ten minutes or so), and for some percentage of people, a kind word at the right time absolutely does make the difference. It may be a small percentage, but it's worth being kind to all.
- bifrost 8y ago
  I agree Kindness on its own may not do much but shaming, bullying and ostracizing are very deleterious. I'll put it this way - it certainly won't hurt.

User23 8y ago

The article avoids pointing out the obvious, but the map makes it clear this rise is predominantly among white Americans.

advisedwang 8y ago
The map absolutely does not make that clear. It could equally be the case that minorities are dying by suicide more in communities where they are totally engulfed by white folks (or folks of any other characteristic that matches the map distribution).
- ManFromUranus 8y ago
  "where they are totally engulfed by white folks" Too bad they were forced there at gunpoint and not allowed to leave... when will white people learn to stop forcing people into their country, then when they ask to leave, building a wall to keep them in.
  - wtetzner 8y ago
    You're kidding, right? Many people were forced into the US, and not allowed to leave. The descendants of those people are natural-born citizens. It's their country too.
    - ben509 8y ago
      Their ancestors were forced here, but their ancestors are not the ones "engulfed by white folks" which is what the original comment claimed. Now, their descendants may feel like they're being persecuted, because they hear that they are from people who have no apparent reason to lie to them. And they may in fact be killing themselves over it.
    - ManFromUranus 8y ago
      Nobody here now who writes things like "engulfed by white folks" has any knowledge of or claim to any of the events you mentioned. Nobody was forced into the country, nobody is forced to stay here. Nobody is forced to be around white people.

rdtsc 8y ago

Feels awkward posting this but I'll leave it here just in case: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (8255)

pshin45 8y ago
And for those who prefer written communication, there's Crisis Text Line[1]: Text 741741 (US only) Disclaimer: I'm a volunteer. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/r-u https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/r-u
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  Oh man I'm so happy that exists. As a teen I absolutely would not call and talk with a stranger. Found help online. Would have loved to text.
trampi 8y ago
Nothing akward about that!
- ljp_206 8y ago
  I agree. Increasing the visibility of help and reducing the friction to get that help is part of reducing the stigma around mental illness, depression, and suicide. Sure, it's awkward to offer a phone number to a stranger or even a friend in crisis, but imagine how things could be if that wasn't the case.

blhack 8y ago

"Hey kid: did you know that your very being is offensive and actually downright violent towards me and there is nothing you can do about it because it literally has to do with a fundamental aspect of who you are." Absolutely shocking that suicide is up.

rarec 8y ago
Strawman aside, the current political climate is certainly growing more hostile and polarized as the societal pendulum swings away. It's probably not a coincidence that most who commit suicide are male and the worst of it are in predominately white states which also just so happen to have lagging economic growth.
runatmebud 8y ago
Can you clarify this quotation? What is the source, who is speaking, to whom are they speaking?
- gedy 8y ago
  I think it's a comment about aggressive identity politics. E.g. male oppression vs females, white vs black as an inate part of being white male, etc
DannyB2 8y ago
I don't know why the downvotes. What you say is true.
- 49531 8y ago
  I feel like I am missing context.
  - DannyB2 8y ago
    Basically one kid (eg, the "bully") says to another kid (eg, the "victim") that the victim's mere existence is deeply offensive to the bully. Hope that helps.

DannyB2 8y ago

THIS IS NOT a politically motivated post. Compare the map in TFA with this map, which I trivially Googled: http://news.gallup.com/poll/203117/gop-maintains-edge-state-party-affiliation-2016.aspx http://news.gallup.com/poll/203117/gop-maintains-edge-state-... It's not a perfect correlation, but to my untrained eye, looking at both maps, it seems to me that red (eg, Republican) states appear to correlate closely with higher suicide states. But please judge and compare the maps for yourself and form your own opinion. Edit, add: one criticism is that the link I got from Google is a 2016 map.

C14L 8y ago
https://xkcd.com/552/ https://xkcd.com/552/
- DannyB2 8y ago
  First, one would establish that there is actually a correlation. If so, then is there a causation? (eg, does being in a red state make one suicidal, or does being suicidal affect one's political views) That seems a bit of a stretch. But if a causation CAN be established, then is there anything that can be done to help people?
  - pitaj 8y ago
    You forgot the third option: are both caused by a third independent variable. For instance, economic situation could influence both political views and mental health.
    - DannyB2 8y ago
      That is true. There could be even other causes. Living in an area with less dense population affects one's outlook in various ways.
    - soundwave106 8y ago
      Another possible correlation is aging populations. Among males at least, suicide is highest among males over 65. (https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml) The "hypothesis" might be that lack of access to good health care among this group (either due to location -- rural health care is not in the best of shape right now from what I can tell (https://news.aamc.org/patient-care/article/health-disparities-affect-millions-rural-us-commun/ https://news.aamc.org/patient-care/article/health-disparitie...) -- or economics) might enhance suicide risk. Access to firearms could be another correlation. Firearms are the leading method of suicide in the United States. The consensus opinion I've heard is that firearms are a lot easier to make an attempted suicide an actual suicide than most other methods. All of these are hypothesis; I doubt we can come to real good conclusions without better data than these summary pages.

CamTin 8y ago

What are they doing right in Nevada?

DannyB2 8y ago
What happens in Vegas, stays in YouTube.
User23 8y ago
Reasonable cost of living and good jobs.
tcfunk 8y ago
The graph is only showing changes in suicide rates. Perhaps Nevada's was already high?
- saalweachter 8y ago
  Nevada looks to be in the top 10 states by suicide rate. Comparing to this map is interesting: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/... Looking at the map from the article, you might think that NY, IL, WI, OR and WA are all in the same boat, but suicide rate in NY is half that in OR.
- Tade0 8y ago
  I dug up some stats and Nevada is pretty high on the list.
  - CamTin 8y ago
    The hypothesis being that there is some upper limit to suicide rate that a society will tend to approach asymptotically but never reach?

test6554 8y ago

Without encouraging or condoning this type of behavior, I really wish people had a chance to conduct an exit interview from life. Only after the decision was solidified and all other methods of outreach had failed. The data would be remarkable and might save many lives. World: We're sorry to see you go. Please let us know why you are leaving, and what we could to do make this a better place to live in the future. Thank you for giving us a chance to know you.

freedomben 8y ago
I agree. This is actually an unfortunate (but maybe necessary) side effect of the push for "look for the signs." I had a fellow engineer kill himself, and it left a lot of unanswered questions. However, he was very familiar with "the signs" and actively avoided doing things that would have tipped people off. He even pushed code and did some code reviews just hours before he died :-(
DoreenMichele 8y ago
I have attempted suicide. I am frequently suicidal. I don't hesitate to comment on it in forums. I sometimes blog about it. Most people genuinely aren't interested in understanding it. If they understood, they might feel compelled to treat other people better and that isn't on their agenda in most cases, basically.
- some_account 8y ago
  I understand it. It's not like the world is a super happy place and everybody is like 'why would you want to leave this place - it's amazing!'. Everybody has their own experiences. Their life is unique. Telling other people that they should stick around can even be selfish, depending on what they are going through. However. Living life is a skill, and I believe can you get quite satisfactory skill levels by making hard choices and changing your life for the better until it becomes pretty fine. You may even feel happy. Takes hard work though, and it's very hard to find that energy when you are depressed and your brain is telling you that your problems are unsolvable. But they are not. That's the good news I guess. :)

jagtodeath 8y ago

Just an interesting observation: People with known mental health conditions are twice as likely to poison themselves in a suicide than those without known mental health conditions.

sp332 8y ago
Firearms are more popular with men and poison is more popular with women. (edit: source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#Differing_methods_by_gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#...) The charts in the article show that women who commit suicide are more likely to have a known mental health condition than men, so that could explain the correlation.

minikites 8y ago

Reducing firearm ownership would reduce suicides: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/wonkblog/suicide-rates/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/wonkblog/su... The common response is that "people will just find another way" but that's not supported by evidence. >“Anything that builds in delay is working in your favor because that fever-pitch time when you’re actually willing to swallow the poison or pull the trigger is often fairly narrow,” said Cathy Barber, who directs a suicide-reduction campaign at the Harvard School of Public Health.

sudomake 8y ago
I've heard that no one attempts suicide twice, but guns make it more likely that their first attempt succeeds
- minikites 8y ago
  That is also correct: >And for those who did not die, it's likely they would not try to commit suicide again. A 2002 review of 90 studies indicates that more than 90 percent of people who survive a suicide attempt won’t die from a later suicide attempt either.
  - tafycent 8y ago
    The way that's worded makes it sound like they will go on to try again, but are very likely to fail again. It makes sense that that would be the case, but I don't think it's the point you're trying to make.
- DanBC 8y ago
  > I've heard that no one attempts suicide twice Lots of people attempt suicide more than once, and many of them die by suicide when they try again.
o203909kd 8y ago
I am a psychologist and to be honest, I think focusing on methods is well-intended but misguided because it leaves the pain but takes away the mechanism. I'm not convinced that even eliminating firearms completely would reduce suicide rates as much as some think because people would find another means. Even the linked piece states "nobody knows what would happen if firearm availability in the US resembled levels of other developed countries." In countries where firearms aren't as available, other methods are more prevalent. I also think there's a lot of differences between the US and other developed countries along a lot of dimensions other than firearm use. Even if it did reduce suicides, though, what does that leave people with? It's akin to saying "we're going to take away this only out for your pain without addressing your problems." Sure, keeping them alive long enough might allow you to intervene and reduce their pain, but the fact that they are driven to suicide to begin with suggests something failed earlier along the chain. What we want are people who don't feel driven to suicide, not people who are unable to commit suicide.

joshuahedlund 8y ago

Relevant recent SSC post: http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/31/in-search-of-missing-us-suicides/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/31/in-search-of-missing-us...

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adamnemecek 8y ago

The accelerationism of the world is really taking it's toll. I feel like the political and economical system is, idk, a result of over-application of certain tenets that might have been justified in the past but are increasingly less valid but certain forces are clinging to them because these tenets are all they have. It's not just the US, the world feels like such a blur. Very important and fucked up things are happening multiple times daily. Things that don't affect me but a lot of times actually really do. Some thousand year old struggles seem to be getting kicked into the internet age and as a result the whole world is getting involved in local conflicts and is forced to take sides. I legit feel as if some sort of new conception of government, nations, states, rights, is really needed. I don't know what but I'm all ears.

stnmtn 8y ago
Try reading Capitalist Realism by Mark Fisher, from what you just said it sounds like you might really like it. He covers a lot of the themes you're talking about in a really approachable way As for what other conception of states can exist, socialism is pretty cool I think
- babkayaga 8y ago
  Socialism might seem pretty cool for someone willing to ignore the last 100 years of humanity's experience with it.
  - TooBrokeToBeg 8y ago
    Socialism doesn't have to be more than a principle. In fact, every capitalistic system has it in some form. So I think your point is dully contrarian.
  - munk-a 8y ago
    Sorry, are you referring to the dictatorial planned economies of the soviet union?
    - 8y ago

ethbro 8y ago

Something that doesn't get noted enough in the tech community (and surprised me). Farming, fishing, and forestry far outweighs other occupational groups in suicide rates for men [1]. When standardized against population, at a rate of 90.5 per 100,000 people [2]; vs the next highest, construction and extraction (52.5). For comparison, computer and mathematical was at 32.8 for men and 12.5 for women. [1] CDC, 2012 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm [2] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm#modalIdString_CDCTable_1 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm#modalIdS...

rojobuffalo 8y ago
I've worked in 2 out of those 3 professions. I'm a little surprised they are at the top of the list. Contact with nature on a daily basis is really refreshing. However, economic struggle in these fields is really bad: low wages, price competition from industrial-scale companies, seasonal instability. Still surprising that those are the top 3.
- tim333 8y ago
  Farming and the like have always been tough economically - you have to fork out for equipment and land but the income from the crop varies dramatically - good year and there is a glut and the prices drop, bad year not much crop and so on. I think it may be better to either have corporations do it where no one is hurt so bad if they go bust, or a regulated subsidised market like the EU.

m12k 8y ago

Desperation is on the rise. That map of suicides by state looks like a map of "flyover states" that are probably disproportionately hit by the downturn in manual labor jobs.

smashingfiasco 8y ago
This. Trade deals like NAFTA totally destabilized (if not disintegrated) industrialized regions of the US. This may not be the only cause of suicide, but it’s part of the story for sure. The coasts don’t care, they seem to celebrate it. What I think those people are missing is that this disease can continue onward and spread throughout.

castlecrasher2 8y ago

I'm not finding any breakdown of suicide rates by age, which would be useful especially comparing to the previous period they measure. In fact, I'm unable to find which exact baseline period and the "rising" period they refer to. The article only states "from 1999 through 2016" but one of their data sources only started collecting data in 2003, in a limited number of states (16 in 2010, 18 in 2014): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Violent_Death_Reporting_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Violent_Death_Reporti... . Others like the NIS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_Cost_and_Utilization_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_Cost_and_Utilizatio...) started collecting earlier, 1988 in this case, and it's unclear how they aggregated this data together. I'm aware that best-case approaches to disparate data such as this is often as good as it gets but I'm uncomfortable with how it's being described without being able to see the methodology the analysts used.

DanBC 8y ago
I agree. I find the CDC suicide statistics very hard to work with. Here's something from the UK: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/whoismostatriskofsuicide/2017-09-07 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... In England we have three main tools. 1) Public Health Fingertips: https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health/profile/suicide https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile-group/mental-health/pr... 2) The Office for National Statistics: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/suicideinenglandandwales https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... 3) The National Confidential Inquiry into suicide and homicide by people with mental illness: http://research.bmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs/research/centreforsuicideprevention/nci/reports/2017-report.pdf http://research.bmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs/research/centrefor...

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djschnei 8y ago

Young (white) men are completely lost in the US right now. The most exciting thing in the majority of my friends lives right now (23-26 years old) are the current challenges in Fortnite. Everyone is scared of longterm, meaningful relationships and Tinder provides the instant artificial validation to make those long-term relationships seem unnecessary. You're a tryhard if you have serious career aspirations or goals. We go to work during the week to get fucked up on the weekends. The common political/social narrative is that you're "the problem". If you're college educated, you're most likely drowning in debt. Most guys I know actively express feeling stuck in a rut or display behavior that strongly suggests it. This report doesn't surprise me at all. Love him or hate him, agree with him or disagree with him, this is why Jordan Peterson rose to fame so quickly. Guys my age in this country are almost completely aimless and without meaningful purpose. This report doesn't surprise me at all...

pjc50 8y ago
> You're a tryhard if you have serious career aspirations or goals Where did this come from, I wonder?
- djschnei 8y ago
  Lack of purpose I suppose. If I have enough money to pay rent, get trashed with the boys on the weekend, and buy cool things every now and then, why lift more than I need to at work? When my dad was my age he just recently bought a house, got married, had a kid on the way. His effort in growing his small business made tons of sense. For me, if it wasn't for my personal drive to be great at my job - a job which I have a passion for (and I know luck has a lot to do with that) - why would a try harder than I need to? I'm not really responsible for anything, you know?
krapp 8y ago
>Young (white) men are completely lost in the US right now. None of the anxiety or malaise you describe in your comment exclusively applies to white people or men, so the parenthetical seems irrelevant.

aquamo 8y ago

It's interesting they didn't mention the high rates amongst veterans. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_veteran_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_veteran...), in 2012 there were 6,500 which seems like enough to get a slice in a pie chart.