4 ms·

I've ABSOLUTELY read the fabled financial report [1]. Things get even more suspicious if one nit-picks on it. Software development cost Mozilla $225M in 2016 an

I've ABSOLUTELY read the fabled financial report [1]. Things get even more suspicious if one nit-picks on it. Software development cost Mozilla $225M in 2016 and other expenses $135M. An unacceptable amount of expenses go into non-core activities! If you're a software engineer @ Mozilla and earn less than ~$190K/annum ($225M/1200 employees), your boss is exploiting you. OR Mozilla routinely pays actual engineers far lesser than what their top brass spend on whims. [1]: https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2016/2016_Mozilla_Audited_Financial_Statement.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2016/2016_Mozilla_Au...

groby_b 8y ago
$190k/y cost doesn't mean an engineer earns $190k/year. Not even close. I'd guess that means they're around average $140k/year income - which really isn't that high for engineers, especially since they have a large presence in the Bay Area. The other expenses break down into mostly marketing ($47M) and "general and administrative" ($59M). The first one makes sense - it's a small budget for a global presence. G&A usually includes office rent, which I'd bet is a huge chunk. Let's do the math: SF is ~$80/sq.ft. Usually assumed is $175 sq.ft/engineer. That's $16M of those $59M. Then there's utilities, insurance, etc. Let's call it $20M. Then there's legal expenses - those usually go into G&A. Given that in 2016, Mozilla squeezed $1B of payments out of Verizon ($375M/year until 2019), I'd assume some lawyers made a good chunk of money. Given the huge jump in G&A from 2015, I'm willing to attribute the entire difference ($20M) to legal costs. This was a huge one-time event, it would make sense. Now we've explained $40M of those $59M. So, at this point, we're debating if the remaining $19M could possibly have been extracted nefariously. Likely, no, because there's more costs. And if you have 1,200 employees, costs add up quickly. Meanwhile, the only evidence you've brought for your accusation is "because I believe it's true". That's not even close to meaningful. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but the facts we all share say otherwise.
- mankash666 8y ago
  1. Not all of the 1200 employees reside in the US. Which implies the U.S. salaries, on average, need to exceed your $140K estimate. IT DOES NOT!!! https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Mozilla-Salaries-E19129.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Mozilla-Salaries-E19129.htm 2. Not all of them are devs, and devs are (typically) the most expensive. Which should further increase the average US compensation for devs to MUCH MORE than $140K 3. GitLab has hundreds of employees but they choose to have a lean real estate footprint, especially in exorbitant zip codes like SF to keep costs low. Obviously, Mozilla isn't concerned by minutiae like over paying for real estate 4. Why does Mozilla need a ~$50M marketing budget? HUGE RED FLAG!!! 5. Self adorned morally upright Mozilla squeezing out a $1B to squander on __insert-here__ is a crime against humanity. They neither have a moral edge over Verizon, nor does money in their coffers benefit humanity. It empowers the senior management in much the same way as government funding empowers the morally bankrupt politicians at the helm. In conclusion, Mozilla's budget breaks down into 66% software (whose costs still don't make sense given their global developer footprint), and 33% B.S. overhead. If one digs deeper, (I'm guessing) you'll find the senior management @ Mozilla to be earning orders of magnitude over junior developers - like a private corp. Further, even private corps have no tolerance for 33% of their budget being squandered!! [Atlassian, Gitlab, ...] are famous for having almost $0 in marketing budget, while a not-for-profit like Mozilla THAT HAS NOTHING TO SELL thinks it OK to wash $50M down the loo. We need a politico like organization to go deep into Mozilla's inner workings as these numbers DO NOT COMPUTE
  - groby_b 8y ago
    Hey look: Average salary of Moz employees? $137k: https://www.comparably.com/companies/mozilla/salaries https://www.comparably.com/companies/mozilla/salaries As for PR/marketing, it might be worth remembering Mozilla's mission: "...to ensure the Internet is a global public resource, open and accessible to all" Yeah, kinda needs marketing. But really, your mind is set. It's part of a conspiracy to enrich the Mozilla leadership. If that helps you sleep at night, go for it.

groby_b 8y ago

$190k/y cost doesn't mean an engineer earns $190k/year. Not even close. I'd guess that means they're around average $140k/year income - which really isn't that high for engineers, especially since they have a large presence in the Bay Area. The other expenses break down into mostly marketing ($47M) and "general and administrative" ($59M). The first one makes sense - it's a small budget for a global presence. G&A usually includes office rent, which I'd bet is a huge chunk. Let's do the math: SF is ~$80/sq.ft. Usually assumed is $175 sq.ft/engineer. That's $16M of those $59M. Then there's utilities, insurance, etc. Let's call it $20M. Then there's legal expenses - those usually go into G&A. Given that in 2016, Mozilla squeezed $1B of payments out of Verizon ($375M/year until 2019), I'd assume some lawyers made a good chunk of money. Given the huge jump in G&A from 2015, I'm willing to attribute the entire difference ($20M) to legal costs. This was a huge one-time event, it would make sense. Now we've explained $40M of those $59M. So, at this point, we're debating if the remaining $19M could possibly have been extracted nefariously. Likely, no, because there's more costs. And if you have 1,200 employees, costs add up quickly. Meanwhile, the only evidence you've brought for your accusation is "because I believe it's true". That's not even close to meaningful. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but the facts we all share say otherwise.

mankash666 8y ago
1. Not all of the 1200 employees reside in the US. Which implies the U.S. salaries, on average, need to exceed your $140K estimate. IT DOES NOT!!! https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Mozilla-Salaries-E19129.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Mozilla-Salaries-E19129.htm 2. Not all of them are devs, and devs are (typically) the most expensive. Which should further increase the average US compensation for devs to MUCH MORE than $140K 3. GitLab has hundreds of employees but they choose to have a lean real estate footprint, especially in exorbitant zip codes like SF to keep costs low. Obviously, Mozilla isn't concerned by minutiae like over paying for real estate 4. Why does Mozilla need a ~$50M marketing budget? HUGE RED FLAG!!! 5. Self adorned morally upright Mozilla squeezing out a $1B to squander on __insert-here__ is a crime against humanity. They neither have a moral edge over Verizon, nor does money in their coffers benefit humanity. It empowers the senior management in much the same way as government funding empowers the morally bankrupt politicians at the helm. In conclusion, Mozilla's budget breaks down into 66% software (whose costs still don't make sense given their global developer footprint), and 33% B.S. overhead. If one digs deeper, (I'm guessing) you'll find the senior management @ Mozilla to be earning orders of magnitude over junior developers - like a private corp. Further, even private corps have no tolerance for 33% of their budget being squandered!! [Atlassian, Gitlab, ...] are famous for having almost $0 in marketing budget, while a not-for-profit like Mozilla THAT HAS NOTHING TO SELL thinks it OK to wash $50M down the loo. We need a politico like organization to go deep into Mozilla's inner workings as these numbers DO NOT COMPUTE
- groby_b 8y ago
  Hey look: Average salary of Moz employees? $137k: https://www.comparably.com/companies/mozilla/salaries https://www.comparably.com/companies/mozilla/salaries As for PR/marketing, it might be worth remembering Mozilla's mission: "...to ensure the Internet is a global public resource, open and accessible to all" Yeah, kinda needs marketing. But really, your mind is set. It's part of a conspiracy to enrich the Mozilla leadership. If that helps you sleep at night, go for it.