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Not sure about Elon, but I suspect (hope?) most of us Tesla drivers have familiarized themselves with the limitations of the system. Its got a couple scenarios

Not sure about Elon, but I suspect (hope?) most of us Tesla drivers have familiarized themselves with the limitations of the system. Its got a couple scenarios in my experience where it shines - chiefly long drives on clean clear interstates and stop-and-go traffic - but its got suicidal tendencies in others. Its not unlike being driven by a tipsy friend or a teenager - there are enough indications that it can't be trusted. Unlike those situations, its easy enough to take control back once you realize that. Marketing it above its capabilities surely isn't helping, though.

Analemma_ 8y ago
To be blunt, I'm kind of stunned that you are defending a system that you yourself describe as "like being driven by a tipsy friend". What?! Sure, I could sit in the front passenger seat while being driven by my tipsy friend and grab the wheel from him if he was about to steer into a wall, but that is clearly much less safe than just driving myself. And I definitely wouldn't pay for the privilege nor endorse it as a good way to travel! This is what Elon's personality cult, and the psychological need to defend a large purchase, does to people. You are making excuses for a clearly defective product that wouldn't be acceptable if this was anyone other than Tesla.
- jungturk 8y ago
  Its curious to see you appeal to ad hominems, outrage, and assumptions of bad intent, but I'll give it a go anyhow. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about the two use cases I cited, but the car performs excellently (and entirely soberly) in those situations. It's a tool that has significant utility and significant footguns. I'm not advocating whether you should use it or not - I'm sharing my experience with where the system delivers and hoping users are looking past the hyperbolic marketing. Its abundantly clear (even to us in the Elon personality cult?) that Tesla and Elon have done themselves a disservice with how they handled this tragedy.
  - freerobby 8y ago
    Fellow Tesla owner here. Agree with everything you wrote. Autopilot is a wonderful system when used properly. It's lousy when it's abused. Applied responsibly, it is very obviously a safety improvement to anybody who uses it. Used as a substitute for human attention, it's very easy to see how it can turn tragic (as we are discussing/witnessing). The way Elon talks about these situations frustrates me to no end. The data are on his side, yet he continually resorts to half-truths because they are simple to present. Pretty obnoxious for a dude who is on a tear about media dishonesty. But: that is a knock against Elon, not against Autopilot. At the end of the day, I believe Autopilot does much more good than bad, and results in in more people staying alive than would without it. I'm glad we have NTSB and NHTSA to keep Tesla honest, and I'm also glad that they are more thorough and tempered than a lot of folks here on HN would like them to be.
- mikestew 8y ago
  This is what Elon's personality cult, and the psychological need to defend a large purchase, does to people. Parent clearly outlines the limitations, as well as where AP works well, and you tear into them with "fanboi" trolls? Given that you know nothing more of the parent's psychological state than a name on a screen, you might try dialing it back a bit.
wilun 8y ago
> Tesla drivers have familiarized themselves with the limitations of the system and then one day you get an update that breaks your mental model you have been familiarized with, your Tesla crashes and you die.
Dirlewanger 8y ago
>most of us Tesla drivers have familiarized themselves with the limitations of the system You're giving too much credit to the average driver. Just because they're richer than the average driver doesn't mean they're going to be more discerning about the car's advanced features. Addtionally, Tesla still advertising Autopilot as "Full Self-Driving Hardware" is borderline negligence.

Analemma_ 8y ago

To be blunt, I'm kind of stunned that you are defending a system that you yourself describe as "like being driven by a tipsy friend". What?! Sure, I could sit in the front passenger seat while being driven by my tipsy friend and grab the wheel from him if he was about to steer into a wall, but that is clearly much less safe than just driving myself. And I definitely wouldn't pay for the privilege nor endorse it as a good way to travel! This is what Elon's personality cult, and the psychological need to defend a large purchase, does to people. You are making excuses for a clearly defective product that wouldn't be acceptable if this was anyone other than Tesla.

jungturk 8y ago
Its curious to see you appeal to ad hominems, outrage, and assumptions of bad intent, but I'll give it a go anyhow. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about the two use cases I cited, but the car performs excellently (and entirely soberly) in those situations. It's a tool that has significant utility and significant footguns. I'm not advocating whether you should use it or not - I'm sharing my experience with where the system delivers and hoping users are looking past the hyperbolic marketing. Its abundantly clear (even to us in the Elon personality cult?) that Tesla and Elon have done themselves a disservice with how they handled this tragedy.
- freerobby 8y ago
  Fellow Tesla owner here. Agree with everything you wrote. Autopilot is a wonderful system when used properly. It's lousy when it's abused. Applied responsibly, it is very obviously a safety improvement to anybody who uses it. Used as a substitute for human attention, it's very easy to see how it can turn tragic (as we are discussing/witnessing). The way Elon talks about these situations frustrates me to no end. The data are on his side, yet he continually resorts to half-truths because they are simple to present. Pretty obnoxious for a dude who is on a tear about media dishonesty. But: that is a knock against Elon, not against Autopilot. At the end of the day, I believe Autopilot does much more good than bad, and results in in more people staying alive than would without it. I'm glad we have NTSB and NHTSA to keep Tesla honest, and I'm also glad that they are more thorough and tempered than a lot of folks here on HN would like them to be.
mikestew 8y ago
This is what Elon's personality cult, and the psychological need to defend a large purchase, does to people. Parent clearly outlines the limitations, as well as where AP works well, and you tear into them with "fanboi" trolls? Given that you know nothing more of the parent's psychological state than a name on a screen, you might try dialing it back a bit.

wilun 8y ago

> Tesla drivers have familiarized themselves with the limitations of the system and then one day you get an update that breaks your mental model you have been familiarized with, your Tesla crashes and you die.

Dirlewanger 8y ago

>most of us Tesla drivers have familiarized themselves with the limitations of the system You're giving too much credit to the average driver. Just because they're richer than the average driver doesn't mean they're going to be more discerning about the car's advanced features. Addtionally, Tesla still advertising Autopilot as "Full Self-Driving Hardware" is borderline negligence.