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As someone who hires in LA, and moved to LA to take a job here, your perception is either outdated or simply incorrect. There are a good number of shops here in

As someone who hires in LA, and moved to LA to take a job here, your perception is either outdated or simply incorrect. There are a good number of shops here in LA, including Google, Amazon, Hulu, Sony and Yahoo that pay well above the median for good talent. A good dev or PM is going to make as much here as in New York, Seattle or San Francisco, although admittedly there are fewer positions overall than those cities. Additionally, most if not all of those major tech employers regularly pay relocation costs to move people here from other tech centers - it's just not practical to run a dev team here and not do it, given the smaller number of engineering grads. Additionally, while having a car is a requirement (as it is in all but a handful of US cities), cost of living is lower than in New York or SF, which are the two most likely alternatives. Rent is lower (my rent here is half of what it would be in those cities) and most of your weekend activities are either free (beach, mountains, etc) or cheaper than SF or NY. And there's more of them too: there aren't many places in the US where you can ski on Saturday and go play volleyball on the beach on Sunday, which is why much of our team are Seattle or San Fran weather refugees. As for Perl, I'd argue that because the tech / web media industry here in LA is newer, there aren't as many folks around who date back to the years when Perl was the dominant platform. When I started developing for the web, it was one of the few practical options; now I'm sure I'd be starting with Ruby or Python. What we do is hire engineers who are smart enough to work in any language, and then let them pick up a book and learn Perl, rather than filter first for that specific language.

cageface 16y ago
I liked a lot of things about L.A. but the traffic eventually killed it for me. I need a car here in the S.F. East Bay too but I very rarely have to sit in the kind of traffic that became my daily nightmare in L.A.
- btilly 16y ago
  Many places in LA will let software developers choose their own hours. It is amazing how much easier the commute is for a 11:30-7:30 day than a 9-5 one. So much so that I don't want to even consider jobs where I don't have that flexibility.
- tomkarlo 16y ago
  It's all about where you choose to live relative to where you work - my new apartment and my old one are across town from each other, but neither commute took more than 15 minutes at peak rush hour. The same can be said of NY, it's all about positioning to minimize the commute. Also, working from home is pretty big - we allow about 20% of days to be WFH - and that's zero commute.
  - cageface 16y ago
    WFH would have definitely made things easier, but there's just a certain amount of traffic you have to put up with in L.A. if you want to enjoy the city at all. I'd come home after a long day at work and the idea of trekking across town for a concert or dinner just seemed like too much work. Even in West Hollywood, where I was living and where there was a lot more going on, just dealing with parking and traffic kept me home many nights.
bugsy 16y ago
Every employer believes they pay market rate and their city is the best place to live in the world. This may be true for them, but is not true for others. I have seen job offers from LA shops ranging from $18k-$60k range. This entire range is very very silly. Developers and engineers are professionals. Living in a one room apartment or in someone's basement are not acceptable options. Salary needs to cover the cost of a single family house. A decent house in a safe neighborhood in LA runs from $400,000 to $2 million. Yes, you can buy in the barrio for much less. You can also rent decently and that is what most in LA do. But to attract a developer who is married and has a family and who will be leaving his 4000 sq ft house on an acre of land, that is not a good option. I agree completely that people in LA like it there and are OK with it. All I am saying is that recruitment is difficult from outside the area because nearly all developers are asked to take a huge hit on their standard of living when moving there. LA recruiters feel the low rates are justified because living in LA is considered itself to be a valuable benefit. Most people outside the area do not see it that way however. Having lived in both areas, if a company in LA is really offering bay area salaries which are $110k-$170k, then yes, they are paying market rate. But a shop in LA offering $70k or even $90k is simply not comparable to a SF job at twice that, given that the costs of living in both areas for reasonable accommodations and commutes are essentially the same. As far as free things to do, SF has LA beat by a mile.

cageface 16y ago

I liked a lot of things about L.A. but the traffic eventually killed it for me. I need a car here in the S.F. East Bay too but I very rarely have to sit in the kind of traffic that became my daily nightmare in L.A.

btilly 16y ago
Many places in LA will let software developers choose their own hours. It is amazing how much easier the commute is for a 11:30-7:30 day than a 9-5 one. So much so that I don't want to even consider jobs where I don't have that flexibility.
tomkarlo 16y ago
It's all about where you choose to live relative to where you work - my new apartment and my old one are across town from each other, but neither commute took more than 15 minutes at peak rush hour. The same can be said of NY, it's all about positioning to minimize the commute. Also, working from home is pretty big - we allow about 20% of days to be WFH - and that's zero commute.
- cageface 16y ago
  WFH would have definitely made things easier, but there's just a certain amount of traffic you have to put up with in L.A. if you want to enjoy the city at all. I'd come home after a long day at work and the idea of trekking across town for a concert or dinner just seemed like too much work. Even in West Hollywood, where I was living and where there was a lot more going on, just dealing with parking and traffic kept me home many nights.

bugsy 16y ago

Every employer believes they pay market rate and their city is the best place to live in the world. This may be true for them, but is not true for others. I have seen job offers from LA shops ranging from $18k-$60k range. This entire range is very very silly. Developers and engineers are professionals. Living in a one room apartment or in someone's basement are not acceptable options. Salary needs to cover the cost of a single family house. A decent house in a safe neighborhood in LA runs from $400,000 to $2 million. Yes, you can buy in the barrio for much less. You can also rent decently and that is what most in LA do. But to attract a developer who is married and has a family and who will be leaving his 4000 sq ft house on an acre of land, that is not a good option. I agree completely that people in LA like it there and are OK with it. All I am saying is that recruitment is difficult from outside the area because nearly all developers are asked to take a huge hit on their standard of living when moving there. LA recruiters feel the low rates are justified because living in LA is considered itself to be a valuable benefit. Most people outside the area do not see it that way however. Having lived in both areas, if a company in LA is really offering bay area salaries which are $110k-$170k, then yes, they are paying market rate. But a shop in LA offering $70k or even $90k is simply not comparable to a SF job at twice that, given that the costs of living in both areas for reasonable accommodations and commutes are essentially the same. As far as free things to do, SF has LA beat by a mile.