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America is fine with people immigrating legally - always has been. The perception that America doesn't have any talent is rather recent. The reason companies ar

America is fine with people immigrating legally - always has been. The perception that America doesn't have any talent is rather recent. The reason companies are started here is due to a number of factors, most importantly the lack of corruption (say compared to Italy), the legal system, and how the class system works. You can actually move up. It doesn't help that you can earn more on the higher end, too. Compare Swedes in US vs Swedes in Sweden. FB UK to FB USA.

jjtheblunt 8y ago
Totally agree. What's really going on is that Californian tech companies have a very hard time getting American talent from outside California to destroy their quality of living by relocating to California. What's left is the purposeful manipulative lie that foreigner talent is needed in the United States beyond whatever level of immigration is current. The lie part is that they really mean California, not the United States. Disclaimer: that conjecture above is something I learned from a straight-talking American executive in Qualcomm ~14 years ago after relocating from Motorola Labs, outside California.
- mhneu 8y ago
  American universities are (currently, if not for long) the best in the world. A big reason for that is because smart people from all over the world come to American universities. Those smart people come to America in part because of its multicultural society. You can come from India or Germany or Japan and live your life in the US (again, presently, but it's changing) much more easily than in other, more homogeneous countries. That multiculturalism is what is being destroyed, to the United States economy's great detriment. (The H-1B visa situation is orthogonal. Yes, the lottery system needs reform, and no America shouldn't be importing young mid-to-low level tech employees from abroad to lower the pay of other tech employees. But the war on immigration has a much larger arc than that. Sergey Brin's parents came to the US for its acceptance of immigrants and its values. THAT is what is being destroyed.)
  - artificial 8y ago
    >That multiculturalism is what is being destroyed, to the United States economy's great detriment. The economy is doing extremely well. >(The H-1B visa situation is orthogonal. Yes, the lottery system needs reform, and no America shouldn't be importing young mid-to-low level tech employees from abroad to lower the pay of other tech employees. Eliminate it already. The H-1B is massively abused by corrupt companies that exploit their workers and lobby to increase quota limits. The O visas have no quota, if they're exceptional people as these companies claim then use that. >But the war on immigration has a much larger arc than that. Sergey Brin's parents came to the US for its acceptance of immigrants and its values. THAT is what is being destroyed. As did Steve Job's parents. They came to America and became Americans, as it should be, and they also didn't over stay a visa or sneak in. Conflating those that do with those that don't is immensely dishonest. It seems like anything less than amnesty and open borders is a "war". It's all about exploitation, especially for the undocumented.
lhopki01 8y ago
>>You can actually move up. What is the proof for it. Evidence shows that the US is one of the worst countries for 'moving up' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility#/media/File:The_Great_Gatsby_Curve.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility#/media/File:Th...
- artificial 8y ago
  America has nearly half of the World's millionaires, and 2017 1.1 million NEW millionaires were created. http://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/index.cfm?fileid=168E2808-9ED4-5A5E-19E43EA2A731A4ED http://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/inde...
  - lhopki01 8y ago
    How does that demonstrate moving up? If you come from wealth you are also likely to become wealthy yourself. That's the opposite of moving up. A millionaire who has 2 children and gives them a million each has just made 2 more millionaires. Moving up requires people from lower wealth backgrounds moving up and the evidence clearly demonstrates that the US is one of the western countries where this happens the least.
    - artificial 8y ago
      The linked document is new money, as in people who weren't millionaires previously. Since we're discussing startups, where would you consider the best place to be to create a business? >Moving up requires people from lower wealth backgrounds moving up and the evidence clearly demonstrates that the US is one of the western countries where this happens the least. 1,000,000+ people annually immigrate. Clearly it's a terrible place for your family.
      - lhopki01 8y ago
        No the linked document looks at two things new wealth and new millionaires. The new millionaires are not necessarily just the ones from new wealth and there is no stipulation that they are self made millionaires so my previous point holds. The US is a great country for those that start out with wealth advantages but not so great for those that start out very low. If you want to compare immigration figures as a measure of how great a place is then lets take the EU. The EU is roughly similar to the US in terms of GDP. In 2016 there was about 2,000,000+ immigrants from outside the EU to the EU suggesting that it's a more popular destination. If however we take a more realistic measure of net migration (migration as a percentage of population) then the US is 29th on the list behind many European countries but also such noticeably desired locations such as the UAE. Migration are not a great measure of whether a country is a great place to move up through society. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2112rank.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...

jjtheblunt 8y ago

Totally agree. What's really going on is that Californian tech companies have a very hard time getting American talent from outside California to destroy their quality of living by relocating to California. What's left is the purposeful manipulative lie that foreigner talent is needed in the United States beyond whatever level of immigration is current. The lie part is that they really mean California, not the United States. Disclaimer: that conjecture above is something I learned from a straight-talking American executive in Qualcomm ~14 years ago after relocating from Motorola Labs, outside California.

mhneu 8y ago
American universities are (currently, if not for long) the best in the world. A big reason for that is because smart people from all over the world come to American universities. Those smart people come to America in part because of its multicultural society. You can come from India or Germany or Japan and live your life in the US (again, presently, but it's changing) much more easily than in other, more homogeneous countries. That multiculturalism is what is being destroyed, to the United States economy's great detriment. (The H-1B visa situation is orthogonal. Yes, the lottery system needs reform, and no America shouldn't be importing young mid-to-low level tech employees from abroad to lower the pay of other tech employees. But the war on immigration has a much larger arc than that. Sergey Brin's parents came to the US for its acceptance of immigrants and its values. THAT is what is being destroyed.)
- artificial 8y ago
  >That multiculturalism is what is being destroyed, to the United States economy's great detriment. The economy is doing extremely well. >(The H-1B visa situation is orthogonal. Yes, the lottery system needs reform, and no America shouldn't be importing young mid-to-low level tech employees from abroad to lower the pay of other tech employees. Eliminate it already. The H-1B is massively abused by corrupt companies that exploit their workers and lobby to increase quota limits. The O visas have no quota, if they're exceptional people as these companies claim then use that. >But the war on immigration has a much larger arc than that. Sergey Brin's parents came to the US for its acceptance of immigrants and its values. THAT is what is being destroyed. As did Steve Job's parents. They came to America and became Americans, as it should be, and they also didn't over stay a visa or sneak in. Conflating those that do with those that don't is immensely dishonest. It seems like anything less than amnesty and open borders is a "war". It's all about exploitation, especially for the undocumented.

lhopki01 8y ago

>>You can actually move up. What is the proof for it. Evidence shows that the US is one of the worst countries for 'moving up' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility#/media/File:The_Great_Gatsby_Curve.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility#/media/File:Th...

artificial 8y ago
America has nearly half of the World's millionaires, and 2017 1.1 million NEW millionaires were created. http://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/index.cfm?fileid=168E2808-9ED4-5A5E-19E43EA2A731A4ED http://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/inde...
- lhopki01 8y ago
  How does that demonstrate moving up? If you come from wealth you are also likely to become wealthy yourself. That's the opposite of moving up. A millionaire who has 2 children and gives them a million each has just made 2 more millionaires. Moving up requires people from lower wealth backgrounds moving up and the evidence clearly demonstrates that the US is one of the western countries where this happens the least.
  - artificial 8y ago
    The linked document is new money, as in people who weren't millionaires previously. Since we're discussing startups, where would you consider the best place to be to create a business? >Moving up requires people from lower wealth backgrounds moving up and the evidence clearly demonstrates that the US is one of the western countries where this happens the least. 1,000,000+ people annually immigrate. Clearly it's a terrible place for your family.
    - lhopki01 8y ago
      No the linked document looks at two things new wealth and new millionaires. The new millionaires are not necessarily just the ones from new wealth and there is no stipulation that they are self made millionaires so my previous point holds. The US is a great country for those that start out with wealth advantages but not so great for those that start out very low. If you want to compare immigration figures as a measure of how great a place is then lets take the EU. The EU is roughly similar to the US in terms of GDP. In 2016 there was about 2,000,000+ immigrants from outside the EU to the EU suggesting that it's a more popular destination. If however we take a more realistic measure of net migration (migration as a percentage of population) then the US is 29th on the list behind many European countries but also such noticeably desired locations such as the UAE. Migration are not a great measure of whether a country is a great place to move up through society. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2112rank.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...