4 ms·

>people from different parts of the world see things and respond differently than you'd expect and then get frustrated when the outcome is different than expect

>people from different parts of the world see things and respond differently than you'd expect and then get frustrated when the outcome is different than expected I get your point, but the fact that Indians say "yes" to everything (i.e. the fact they lie constantly) is not something that managers should get used to, it's something Indians have to correct.

deleted 8y ago
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desi_ninja 8y ago
Don’t you think imagining 1 billion people following exact same behavior is what you can easily imagine in case of India but cannot do that for USA ?
ethbro 8y ago
Saying "yes" to everything, as has been explained above, has more to do with different cultural definitions of "yes" than lying. You ask me if it's going to rain, and I say yes, because I know with certainty it will rain tomorrow. Is it fair for you to call me a liar because you carried around an umbrella today?
- cpmouter 8y ago
  >different cultural definitions of "yes" https://i.imgur.com/gByDqFX.png https://i.imgur.com/gByDqFX.png There's no 100% accuracy in weather forecasts so a mistake is understandable. Asking you if you finished your task and getting a "yes" when you haven't finished it is outright lying.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    You're missing the metaphor by being pedantic. I'll assume you're American (I am). You know how in a healthy, well-led team, if your boss suggests a course of action that's wrong at a meeting and asks for feedback, you and I would pipe up and point out the issues with their approach? In Asian cultures, my understanding is that would never happen. Instead, everyone would agree at the meeting, then feedback would be given privately to the boss if it were a major issue, and decision changed. Which one's right? Eh, if they both result in an eventual good choice, does it matter? If you feel strongly about "yes" being a lie, then bully to you and run with that. But that's kind of like boxing a glacier and expecting to win...
    - mkovji 8y ago
      Its funny how you comment as if you know 100 % about Asian culture. Does one persons behavior define an entire continents culture for you? Some people have worked in 16 diff teams in last 10 years and they have friends who have broader experience and they have super close conversation with managers, they don't go to agile rooms and draw something on the white board all the time and come out with no insights or progress after a hour or only have a skilled person come and give a direction in 5 minutes and nullify the whole one hour white board drawing. I can tell for sure since i have been part of many such teams where we precisely point out any steps in the negative directions and offer tons of suggestions to improvize on the approach and most of the time come up with a way to gently impart some sense into the overseas managers who have no idea how to get what they want. Your reasoning is so flawed because u didn't know when to use the word never, that doesn't mean your continents reasoning is flawed but i wish in hacker news there is a option to filter out certain people's comment globally forever.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    > Asking you if you finished your task and getting a "yes" when you haven't finished it is outright lying. That's incompetent management. The question should be reworded to avoid yes / no answers. "How much has been done?" would be a better question.
- lainga 8y ago
  >has more to do with different cultural definitions of "yes" than lying Thus the Windows dialogues which let you choose between "Yes" and "Yes" when localised to English-India.
- to_bpr 8y ago
  >more to do with different cultural definitions of "yes" than lying. I call poe.
- RandomCSGeek 8y ago
  Indian here. We don't lie. If you ask me if I am a female, I'd obviously won't answer yes to that. The problem is that it's considered rude to say no when asked to complete a task by a senior. So when you'd ask an Indian developer if he can complete a project in a week, he might say yes even though he's not sure if he can do it. What he would do is say yes, and then give his best try to complete it in a week. Only when he has failed to do so, he'd report his failure. Basically, saying no is considered as insubordination/cowardice.
John_KZ 8y ago
This. There are mannerisms, and there's outright lying. I'm sure those people know they're potentially wasting your time or even hurting you with false answers but they still go ahead. It's reasonable to drop some phrases/mannerisms when you know some phrases are going to be taken literally or misinterpreted (while they shouldn't be). I can't remember of any examples about western norms right now, but I think asking "How are you?" as a greeting is not acceptable in some places, as it implies actually caring on how the person is doing or knowing them well.
sangnoir 8y ago
> i.e. the fact they lie constantly I'm yet to discover a culture that doesn't do this, and the people from that culture are so inured to it they don't call it lying but "being polite". As an example that would be widely understood by HN, Americans lie constantly when they ask "How are you doing?" - they really don't want to know how you are doing, and worse, you're expected to lie back with enthusiasm "I'm great!", even when you're not.
- PeterisP 8y ago
  There certainly are many cultures (e.g. Eastern or Northern Europe) where the expected response to "How are you doing?" would be either a truthful description of the important problems in their life that they are currently concerned about or becoming creeped out because you're asking a rather private question and you aren't close enough so that it would be reasonable for them to tell you how they're actually doing, nor it would be reasonable for them to lie with "I'm great!" - i.e. where the question isn't appropriate to be used randomly by near-strangers.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

desi_ninja 8y ago

Don’t you think imagining 1 billion people following exact same behavior is what you can easily imagine in case of India but cannot do that for USA ?

ethbro 8y ago

Saying "yes" to everything, as has been explained above, has more to do with different cultural definitions of "yes" than lying. You ask me if it's going to rain, and I say yes, because I know with certainty it will rain tomorrow. Is it fair for you to call me a liar because you carried around an umbrella today?

cpmouter 8y ago
>different cultural definitions of "yes" https://i.imgur.com/gByDqFX.png https://i.imgur.com/gByDqFX.png There's no 100% accuracy in weather forecasts so a mistake is understandable. Asking you if you finished your task and getting a "yes" when you haven't finished it is outright lying.
- ethbro 8y ago
  You're missing the metaphor by being pedantic. I'll assume you're American (I am). You know how in a healthy, well-led team, if your boss suggests a course of action that's wrong at a meeting and asks for feedback, you and I would pipe up and point out the issues with their approach? In Asian cultures, my understanding is that would never happen. Instead, everyone would agree at the meeting, then feedback would be given privately to the boss if it were a major issue, and decision changed. Which one's right? Eh, if they both result in an eventual good choice, does it matter? If you feel strongly about "yes" being a lie, then bully to you and run with that. But that's kind of like boxing a glacier and expecting to win...
  - mkovji 8y ago
    Its funny how you comment as if you know 100 % about Asian culture. Does one persons behavior define an entire continents culture for you? Some people have worked in 16 diff teams in last 10 years and they have friends who have broader experience and they have super close conversation with managers, they don't go to agile rooms and draw something on the white board all the time and come out with no insights or progress after a hour or only have a skilled person come and give a direction in 5 minutes and nullify the whole one hour white board drawing. I can tell for sure since i have been part of many such teams where we precisely point out any steps in the negative directions and offer tons of suggestions to improvize on the approach and most of the time come up with a way to gently impart some sense into the overseas managers who have no idea how to get what they want. Your reasoning is so flawed because u didn't know when to use the word never, that doesn't mean your continents reasoning is flawed but i wish in hacker news there is a option to filter out certain people's comment globally forever.
- DanBC 8y ago
  > Asking you if you finished your task and getting a "yes" when you haven't finished it is outright lying. That's incompetent management. The question should be reworded to avoid yes / no answers. "How much has been done?" would be a better question.
lainga 8y ago
>has more to do with different cultural definitions of "yes" than lying Thus the Windows dialogues which let you choose between "Yes" and "Yes" when localised to English-India.
to_bpr 8y ago
>more to do with different cultural definitions of "yes" than lying. I call poe.
RandomCSGeek 8y ago
Indian here. We don't lie. If you ask me if I am a female, I'd obviously won't answer yes to that. The problem is that it's considered rude to say no when asked to complete a task by a senior. So when you'd ask an Indian developer if he can complete a project in a week, he might say yes even though he's not sure if he can do it. What he would do is say yes, and then give his best try to complete it in a week. Only when he has failed to do so, he'd report his failure. Basically, saying no is considered as insubordination/cowardice.

John_KZ 8y ago

This. There are mannerisms, and there's outright lying. I'm sure those people know they're potentially wasting your time or even hurting you with false answers but they still go ahead. It's reasonable to drop some phrases/mannerisms when you know some phrases are going to be taken literally or misinterpreted (while they shouldn't be). I can't remember of any examples about western norms right now, but I think asking "How are you?" as a greeting is not acceptable in some places, as it implies actually caring on how the person is doing or knowing them well.

sangnoir 8y ago

> i.e. the fact they lie constantly I'm yet to discover a culture that doesn't do this, and the people from that culture are so inured to it they don't call it lying but "being polite". As an example that would be widely understood by HN, Americans lie constantly when they ask "How are you doing?" - they really don't want to know how you are doing, and worse, you're expected to lie back with enthusiasm "I'm great!", even when you're not.

PeterisP 8y ago
There certainly are many cultures (e.g. Eastern or Northern Europe) where the expected response to "How are you doing?" would be either a truthful description of the important problems in their life that they are currently concerned about or becoming creeped out because you're asking a rather private question and you aren't close enough so that it would be reasonable for them to tell you how they're actually doing, nor it would be reasonable for them to lie with "I'm great!" - i.e. where the question isn't appropriate to be used randomly by near-strangers.