5 ms·

When I first became a manager, I had this really amazing mentor that explained to me a lot of the quirks of multiculturalism. I consider myself at least somewh

by kemiller2002 8y ago

When I first became a manager, I had this really amazing mentor that explained to me a lot of the quirks of multiculturalism. I consider myself at least somewhat versed in other cultures, but I quickly learned there was a lot I didn't know about the mannerisms of people from India, China, Russia, etc. What I find sad, is that there are a lot of people in positions of power that either have no idea (or don't care) that people from different parts of the world see things and respond differently than you'd expect and then get frustrated when the outcome is different than expected. I'd explain to them that it's a cultural thing, and they need to learn how to approach their questions/explanations differently. Most of the time I get this blank look like, "Why? Can't they just change?" and then go back to trying the same approach and calling their staff down, because they can't seem to understand why they are ineffective.

cpmouter 8y ago
>people from different parts of the world see things and respond differently than you'd expect and then get frustrated when the outcome is different than expected I get your point, but the fact that Indians say "yes" to everything (i.e. the fact they lie constantly) is not something that managers should get used to, it's something Indians have to correct.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- desi_ninja 8y ago
  Don’t you think imagining 1 billion people following exact same behavior is what you can easily imagine in case of India but cannot do that for USA ?
- ethbro 8y ago
  Saying "yes" to everything, as has been explained above, has more to do with different cultural definitions of "yes" than lying. You ask me if it's going to rain, and I say yes, because I know with certainty it will rain tomorrow. Is it fair for you to call me a liar because you carried around an umbrella today?
  - cpmouter 8y ago
    >different cultural definitions of "yes" https://i.imgur.com/gByDqFX.png https://i.imgur.com/gByDqFX.png There's no 100% accuracy in weather forecasts so a mistake is understandable. Asking you if you finished your task and getting a "yes" when you haven't finished it is outright lying.
    - ethbro 8y ago
      You're missing the metaphor by being pedantic. I'll assume you're American (I am). You know how in a healthy, well-led team, if your boss suggests a course of action that's wrong at a meeting and asks for feedback, you and I would pipe up and point out the issues with their approach? In Asian cultures, my understanding is that would never happen. Instead, everyone would agree at the meeting, then feedback would be given privately to the boss if it were a major issue, and decision changed. Which one's right? Eh, if they both result in an eventual good choice, does it matter? If you feel strongly about "yes" being a lie, then bully to you and run with that. But that's kind of like boxing a glacier and expecting to win...
      - mkovji 8y ago
        Its funny how you comment as if you know 100 % about Asian culture. Does one persons behavior define an entire continents culture for you? Some people have worked in 16 diff teams in last 10 years and they have friends who have broader experience and they have super close conversation with managers, they don't go to agile rooms and draw something on the white board all the time and come out with no insights or progress after a hour or only have a skilled person come and give a direction in 5 minutes and nullify the whole one hour white board drawing. I can tell for sure since i have been part of many such teams where we precisely point out any steps in the negative directions and offer tons of suggestions to improvize on the approach and most of the time come up with a way to gently impart some sense into the overseas managers who have no idea how to get what they want. Your reasoning is so flawed because u didn't know when to use the word never, that doesn't mean your continents reasoning is flawed but i wish in hacker news there is a option to filter out certain people's comment globally forever.
- John_KZ 8y ago
  This. There are mannerisms, and there's outright lying. I'm sure those people know they're potentially wasting your time or even hurting you with false answers but they still go ahead. It's reasonable to drop some phrases/mannerisms when you know some phrases are going to be taken literally or misinterpreted (while they shouldn't be). I can't remember of any examples about western norms right now, but I think asking "How are you?" as a greeting is not acceptable in some places, as it implies actually caring on how the person is doing or knowing them well.
- sangnoir 8y ago
  > i.e. the fact they lie constantly I'm yet to discover a culture that doesn't do this, and the people from that culture are so inured to it they don't call it lying but "being polite". As an example that would be widely understood by HN, Americans lie constantly when they ask "How are you doing?" - they really don't want to know how you are doing, and worse, you're expected to lie back with enthusiasm "I'm great!", even when you're not.
  - PeterisP 8y ago
    There certainly are many cultures (e.g. Eastern or Northern Europe) where the expected response to "How are you doing?" would be either a truthful description of the important problems in their life that they are currently concerned about or becoming creeped out because you're asking a rather private question and you aren't close enough so that it would be reasonable for them to tell you how they're actually doing, nor it would be reasonable for them to lie with "I'm great!" - i.e. where the question isn't appropriate to be used randomly by near-strangers.
crazygringo 8y ago
In my travels, I learned very quickly not to let that bother me, or else I would have gone nuts. I mean, the number of times somebody acted like I was an insane person because I started to eat X food with my hands instead of silverware, or silverware instead of hands. ("But in the last country I was in...!") Fact is, you're the one choosing to be aware of and experience different cultures and travel, but they're not making that choice. And I had to conclude that they shouldn't need to make that choice if they don't want to. So I just sucked it up and would go along with the joke, "yeah us foreigners are such weirdos, ha!"
- mkovji 8y ago
  every foreigner is always a wierdo, thats wat makes this world so much fun and exciting. foreigner by nation or state or city or apartment or school.
  - crazygringo 8y ago
    thanks for what might be my favorite HN comment ever ;)
madeuptempacct 8y ago
What do you think is different about working with Russians? The culture is the same thing. We had two off-shore teams, one from Ukraine and one from Bosnia and Herzegovina. There was zero difference in professional discourse when compared to American consultants.
gaius 8y ago
I once heard from a US based colleague that he said “do X but don’t burn any bridges” to a teammate in China. That apparently once translated means the opposite of its Western meaning! An expensive mistake that was.

cpmouter 8y ago

>people from different parts of the world see things and respond differently than you'd expect and then get frustrated when the outcome is different than expected I get your point, but the fact that Indians say "yes" to everything (i.e. the fact they lie constantly) is not something that managers should get used to, it's something Indians have to correct.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
desi_ninja 8y ago
Don’t you think imagining 1 billion people following exact same behavior is what you can easily imagine in case of India but cannot do that for USA ?
ethbro 8y ago
Saying "yes" to everything, as has been explained above, has more to do with different cultural definitions of "yes" than lying. You ask me if it's going to rain, and I say yes, because I know with certainty it will rain tomorrow. Is it fair for you to call me a liar because you carried around an umbrella today?
- cpmouter 8y ago
  >different cultural definitions of "yes" https://i.imgur.com/gByDqFX.png https://i.imgur.com/gByDqFX.png There's no 100% accuracy in weather forecasts so a mistake is understandable. Asking you if you finished your task and getting a "yes" when you haven't finished it is outright lying.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    You're missing the metaphor by being pedantic. I'll assume you're American (I am). You know how in a healthy, well-led team, if your boss suggests a course of action that's wrong at a meeting and asks for feedback, you and I would pipe up and point out the issues with their approach? In Asian cultures, my understanding is that would never happen. Instead, everyone would agree at the meeting, then feedback would be given privately to the boss if it were a major issue, and decision changed. Which one's right? Eh, if they both result in an eventual good choice, does it matter? If you feel strongly about "yes" being a lie, then bully to you and run with that. But that's kind of like boxing a glacier and expecting to win...
    - mkovji 8y ago
      Its funny how you comment as if you know 100 % about Asian culture. Does one persons behavior define an entire continents culture for you? Some people have worked in 16 diff teams in last 10 years and they have friends who have broader experience and they have super close conversation with managers, they don't go to agile rooms and draw something on the white board all the time and come out with no insights or progress after a hour or only have a skilled person come and give a direction in 5 minutes and nullify the whole one hour white board drawing. I can tell for sure since i have been part of many such teams where we precisely point out any steps in the negative directions and offer tons of suggestions to improvize on the approach and most of the time come up with a way to gently impart some sense into the overseas managers who have no idea how to get what they want. Your reasoning is so flawed because u didn't know when to use the word never, that doesn't mean your continents reasoning is flawed but i wish in hacker news there is a option to filter out certain people's comment globally forever.
John_KZ 8y ago
This. There are mannerisms, and there's outright lying. I'm sure those people know they're potentially wasting your time or even hurting you with false answers but they still go ahead. It's reasonable to drop some phrases/mannerisms when you know some phrases are going to be taken literally or misinterpreted (while they shouldn't be). I can't remember of any examples about western norms right now, but I think asking "How are you?" as a greeting is not acceptable in some places, as it implies actually caring on how the person is doing or knowing them well.
sangnoir 8y ago
> i.e. the fact they lie constantly I'm yet to discover a culture that doesn't do this, and the people from that culture are so inured to it they don't call it lying but "being polite". As an example that would be widely understood by HN, Americans lie constantly when they ask "How are you doing?" - they really don't want to know how you are doing, and worse, you're expected to lie back with enthusiasm "I'm great!", even when you're not.
- PeterisP 8y ago
  There certainly are many cultures (e.g. Eastern or Northern Europe) where the expected response to "How are you doing?" would be either a truthful description of the important problems in their life that they are currently concerned about or becoming creeped out because you're asking a rather private question and you aren't close enough so that it would be reasonable for them to tell you how they're actually doing, nor it would be reasonable for them to lie with "I'm great!" - i.e. where the question isn't appropriate to be used randomly by near-strangers.

crazygringo 8y ago

In my travels, I learned very quickly not to let that bother me, or else I would have gone nuts. I mean, the number of times somebody acted like I was an insane person because I started to eat X food with my hands instead of silverware, or silverware instead of hands. ("But in the last country I was in...!") Fact is, you're the one choosing to be aware of and experience different cultures and travel, but they're not making that choice. And I had to conclude that they shouldn't need to make that choice if they don't want to. So I just sucked it up and would go along with the joke, "yeah us foreigners are such weirdos, ha!"

mkovji 8y ago
every foreigner is always a wierdo, thats wat makes this world so much fun and exciting. foreigner by nation or state or city or apartment or school.
- crazygringo 8y ago
  thanks for what might be my favorite HN comment ever ;)

madeuptempacct 8y ago

What do you think is different about working with Russians? The culture is the same thing. We had two off-shore teams, one from Ukraine and one from Bosnia and Herzegovina. There was zero difference in professional discourse when compared to American consultants.

gaius 8y ago

I once heard from a US based colleague that he said “do X but don’t burn any bridges” to a teammate in China. That apparently once translated means the opposite of its Western meaning! An expensive mistake that was.