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A company will outsource because it’s cheaper, in the short term at least. But an outsourcer runs on billable hours, so they are disincentivised to automate rep

by gaius 8y ago

A company will outsource because it’s cheaper, in the short term at least. But an outsourcer runs on billable hours, so they are disincentivised to automate repetitive tasks. So here’s the new competition: outsourcer who can do the job for 1/10th the cost, or In-house engineers with advanced automation who can do 100x the work at the same cost. It’s not about West vs India, it’s about business models.

frozenport 8y ago
They did a lot of publishing stuff that was billed by the page.
wnsire 8y ago
> they are disincentivised to automate repetitive tasks That's definitely the issue here. As an engineer , you are usually trained to automate as much as your work as possible , and we create framework for that. Outsourcer won't , or will not tell you about it because they need to charge you money for it. At some point , it's very likely that India will suffer the same crisis as China labour from automation.
- dx034 8y ago
  > At some point , it's very likely that India will suffer the same crisis as China labour from automation. Is China really suffering that crisis? I have the impression that they focused early enough on high-tech industries and that the increasing wealth (leading to higher cost) drives more manual labour away than automation.
WhiteSource1 8y ago
Absolutely. BTW, that's one of the key issues why the Panaya acquisition was a failure for Infosys. The business strategy was right: automate for the corporate entity to increase quality and reduce costs. The problem was the outsourcers on the ground had no incentive to bring Panaya into the picture.
digitalzombie 8y ago
It's more like abuse of Visa. These Indians cannot compete or shop around for a better salary which make native programmer's salary cheaper. If you don't like the cheaper salary then go back home and reapply for visa that's the choice they have and it's a disincentive to go through the whole process. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa > If a foreign worker in H-1B status quits or is dismissed from the sponsoring employer, the worker must either apply for and be granted a change of status, find another employer (subject to application for adjustment of status and/or change of visa), or leave the United States. Effective January 17, 2017, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services modified the rules to allow a grace period of up to 60 days but in practice as long as a green card application is pending they are allowed to stay. That's not really a new competition. It's just a cheat/loop hole that companies use to pay nonnative IT people dirt. I think a better solution is let non native workers shop around for better salary (or make it easier) and add a foreign tax on top of their salary. The foreign tax is similar to out of state tuition when you attend university out of state, the people who are native who have paid taxes for the infrastructure vs people that aren't native that are using infrastructure and may leave the state/country with no loyalty but for better opportunities should pay a tax. The tax is also to incentivize visa holder to become citizen in the future. I also like a hiring cap for non native people base on if there are actual skill lacking in current work force. The cap is to be revise every few years base on market.
- qaq 8y ago
  This only applies to US Visas most countries have very simple visa option for tech workers.

by gaius 8y ago

frozenport 8y ago

They did a lot of publishing stuff that was billed by the page.

wnsire 8y ago

> they are disincentivised to automate repetitive tasks That's definitely the issue here. As an engineer , you are usually trained to automate as much as your work as possible , and we create framework for that. Outsourcer won't , or will not tell you about it because they need to charge you money for it. At some point , it's very likely that India will suffer the same crisis as China labour from automation.

dx034 8y ago
> At some point , it's very likely that India will suffer the same crisis as China labour from automation. Is China really suffering that crisis? I have the impression that they focused early enough on high-tech industries and that the increasing wealth (leading to higher cost) drives more manual labour away than automation.

WhiteSource1 8y ago

Absolutely. BTW, that's one of the key issues why the Panaya acquisition was a failure for Infosys. The business strategy was right: automate for the corporate entity to increase quality and reduce costs. The problem was the outsourcers on the ground had no incentive to bring Panaya into the picture.

digitalzombie 8y ago

It's more like abuse of Visa. These Indians cannot compete or shop around for a better salary which make native programmer's salary cheaper. If you don't like the cheaper salary then go back home and reapply for visa that's the choice they have and it's a disincentive to go through the whole process. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa > If a foreign worker in H-1B status quits or is dismissed from the sponsoring employer, the worker must either apply for and be granted a change of status, find another employer (subject to application for adjustment of status and/or change of visa), or leave the United States. Effective January 17, 2017, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services modified the rules to allow a grace period of up to 60 days but in practice as long as a green card application is pending they are allowed to stay. That's not really a new competition. It's just a cheat/loop hole that companies use to pay nonnative IT people dirt. I think a better solution is let non native workers shop around for better salary (or make it easier) and add a foreign tax on top of their salary. The foreign tax is similar to out of state tuition when you attend university out of state, the people who are native who have paid taxes for the infrastructure vs people that aren't native that are using infrastructure and may leave the state/country with no loyalty but for better opportunities should pay a tax. The tax is also to incentivize visa holder to become citizen in the future. I also like a hiring cap for non native people base on if there are actual skill lacking in current work force. The cap is to be revise every few years base on market.

qaq 8y ago
This only applies to US Visas most countries have very simple visa option for tech workers.