8 ms·

Yeah. My generalization is of no use in a discussion. I only meant to say a lot of them(that I know) are. I can't vouch for billions of us :-) Could you elabor

Yeah. My generalization is of no use in a discussion. I only meant to say a lot of them(that I know) are. I can't vouch for billions of us :-) Could you elaborate "sheltered by western standards"?

ramblerman 8y ago
I can also only speak for the friends I know :) But I mean overly protected to a late age, and very strongly influenced by their parents. The flip side is that on average my Indian friends are also the politest people that I know, which makes me realize it's really a lost quality.
- stillwatersr 8y ago
  I've found quite the opposite to be the truth. On average, my Indian friends are the most arrogant, rude people I know.
  - jdietrich 8y ago
    There's a bit of a culture clash. Hindi has no direct equivalent of the English word "please" and the closest equivalent of "thank you" has very different connotations that can be perceived as rude. Politeness in the Hindi language is subtle and complex. The verb forms used to express intimacy and formality in Hindi don't translate into English, so Indian speakers often seem a bit blunt and direct to native speakers. To grossly generalise, Indians tend to be less private and more personally inquisitive than Americans, which can sometimes seem intrusive or overly familiar. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/thank-you-culture-india-america/395069/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/th...
pjmlp 8y ago
The culture of always say yes, and never contradict what the western project manager says, regardless how ridiculous it might be? Until it explodes and escalates all the way to the top.
jacobush 8y ago
I feel like a horrible person for this - but in an outsourcing scenario: listening a LOT to direction and not explore solutions very much themselves. This is probably amplified by their management giving them hell if they spend too much on exploring instead of ticking off the boxes that they can bill for. I.e. not only "you get what you pay for" in the sense that cheap labour might not be the most skilled labour, but in the deeper sense in that if the outsourcing scenario is such that the western company orders a bunch of stuff from a checklist done, well, that's what's going to get done. This is the same problem a large organization has locally too, but it gets amplified when you try to outsource things and increase turn-around time.
- reacharavindh 8y ago
  You hit a vein of deep true thought. I can share my personal experience that can help exemplify your point. Disclaimer: Personal experience. Not saying this is the case foe everyone. My first job was to work for one of the biggest Indian outsourcing companies. Soon after joining, I realized that their business model has nothing to do with real engineering work or genuine solutions to problems. They were essentially looking for people to tick the boxes, sit around and do stuff that could easily be automated, or maintain software that should have been rewritten decades ago. Their goal is to bill the western clients and prolong the maintenance work as much as they could. Now, there is no need for creative thought or engineering prowess here. It is not surprising that someone doing this task is not passionate or creative. This is what translates to "Listen to western managers, and do just what they ask for, and the infamous never say NO". Saying No is not the engineer's prerogative here. On the other hand, several Engineers from the same country who work for product companies with the right incentives(you get paid and recognised for a good product) show the true passion and creativity. I have friends who work for both categories of companies and I can clearly see this distinction. Personal experience - I worked for Bank of America - Merill Lynch development center in India, maintaining a COBOL application. I once received an email from a senior team member(from Florida) to just translate his logic from the attached Word document to COBOL and not to do anything more. You get what you pay for. I quit that job a week after, and flew to the states to do my graduate studies soon after. TLDR; Dont expect passion from cheap outsourced labor. Many people do those jobs because they do not have access to a better alternative. Sorry for the rant. I know some friends of mine in the industry shared my experience. It does not mean everyone does/feels the same way. I apologize if I unintentionally belittled anyone's serious effort.

Yeah. My generalization is of no use in a discussion. I only meant to say a lot of them(that I know) are. I can't vouch for billions of us :-) Could you elaborate "sheltered by western standards"?

ramblerman 8y ago

I can also only speak for the friends I know :) But I mean overly protected to a late age, and very strongly influenced by their parents. The flip side is that on average my Indian friends are also the politest people that I know, which makes me realize it's really a lost quality.

stillwatersr 8y ago
I've found quite the opposite to be the truth. On average, my Indian friends are the most arrogant, rude people I know.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  There's a bit of a culture clash. Hindi has no direct equivalent of the English word "please" and the closest equivalent of "thank you" has very different connotations that can be perceived as rude. Politeness in the Hindi language is subtle and complex. The verb forms used to express intimacy and formality in Hindi don't translate into English, so Indian speakers often seem a bit blunt and direct to native speakers. To grossly generalise, Indians tend to be less private and more personally inquisitive than Americans, which can sometimes seem intrusive or overly familiar. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/thank-you-culture-india-america/395069/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/th...

pjmlp 8y ago

The culture of always say yes, and never contradict what the western project manager says, regardless how ridiculous it might be? Until it explodes and escalates all the way to the top.

jacobush 8y ago

I feel like a horrible person for this - but in an outsourcing scenario: listening a LOT to direction and not explore solutions very much themselves. This is probably amplified by their management giving them hell if they spend too much on exploring instead of ticking off the boxes that they can bill for. I.e. not only "you get what you pay for" in the sense that cheap labour might not be the most skilled labour, but in the deeper sense in that if the outsourcing scenario is such that the western company orders a bunch of stuff from a checklist done, well, that's what's going to get done. This is the same problem a large organization has locally too, but it gets amplified when you try to outsource things and increase turn-around time.

reacharavindh 8y ago
You hit a vein of deep true thought. I can share my personal experience that can help exemplify your point. Disclaimer: Personal experience. Not saying this is the case foe everyone. My first job was to work for one of the biggest Indian outsourcing companies. Soon after joining, I realized that their business model has nothing to do with real engineering work or genuine solutions to problems. They were essentially looking for people to tick the boxes, sit around and do stuff that could easily be automated, or maintain software that should have been rewritten decades ago. Their goal is to bill the western clients and prolong the maintenance work as much as they could. Now, there is no need for creative thought or engineering prowess here. It is not surprising that someone doing this task is not passionate or creative. This is what translates to "Listen to western managers, and do just what they ask for, and the infamous never say NO". Saying No is not the engineer's prerogative here. On the other hand, several Engineers from the same country who work for product companies with the right incentives(you get paid and recognised for a good product) show the true passion and creativity. I have friends who work for both categories of companies and I can clearly see this distinction. Personal experience - I worked for Bank of America - Merill Lynch development center in India, maintaining a COBOL application. I once received an email from a senior team member(from Florida) to just translate his logic from the attached Word document to COBOL and not to do anything more. You get what you pay for. I quit that job a week after, and flew to the states to do my graduate studies soon after. TLDR; Dont expect passion from cheap outsourced labor. Many people do those jobs because they do not have access to a better alternative. Sorry for the rant. I know some friends of mine in the industry shared my experience. It does not mean everyone does/feels the same way. I apologize if I unintentionally belittled anyone's serious effort.