5 ms·

Firefox dropped below the 10% share value on Netmarketshare

33 points by Jerry2 8y ago

zaarn 8y ago
I hope that more webdevs recognize this is just leading into a new era of IE but with Chrome and start pushing people into Firefox (atm they're pushing into Chrome via 'works only in chrome' messages that are factually false most of the time given the websites work with a UA changer)
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  The most depressing truth that I've mentioned as well on HN many times. Chrome is the new IE. I have never stopped using Firefox. I was an early Chrome user till I realized no adblock, then when adblock came it was weak and barely worked and gave up on Chrome altogether. Firefox has always had powerful customization without screwing the end user in the long run. At least back in the mid 2000s if you ever saw banners that said a site needed Firefox to run properly it was because people were on IE which didn't support new standard HTML features. Not because devs didn't test their JS outside of Chrome. If you can't code for more than one browser you shouldn't be a web developer imho. Unless you're doing Electron or something.
- organicmultiloc 8y ago
  I think most web developers have been very wary of Google and Chrome since 2010 or so.
  - zaarn 8y ago
    Depends on the web developer. People who actually write websites people use and thusly they support everything from IE11 and up. Or the ones that shit out the latest trend in webdev which only supports the Chrome version the author used.
- doorbumper 8y ago
  I want more than anything to use Firefox, but the fact remains that they have internal issues that prevent them from creating a quality product. Slow startup times, constant hangs, memory leaks, crashes, and general sluggishness prevent even people who care from using Firefox. Firefox will never match Chrome head-to-head, and is a dying browser. Then only way Chrome doesn't win is if a new competitor appears.
  - _tulpa 8y ago
    Have you used Firefox since Quantum was released? I switched back to Firefox around version 57, and the only 'performance issue' was initially having to re-learn stuff that was muscle memory in Chrome. Once I got up to speed the user experience is indistinguishable from Chrome - even on the crappy old netbook I sometimes have to use. The thing that might kill firefox is the aforementioned shitty web devs with their bogus UA checks, Firefox having a history of bad performance/stability, and most people already using Chrome with no reason to consider switching.
- s17n 8y ago
  IE won because it was better than Netscape, Firefox won because it was better than IE, Chrome won because it was better than Firefox. As far as I can tell the whole history of browser market share is just one long example of the market working exactly as it should and everybody benefitting.
  - zaarn 8y ago
    Browser Monocultures are not good, even if Firefox is the dominating browser. In an ideal world we'd have about 25% to Edge, 25% to Safari, 25% to Firefox and 25% to Chrome.
miaklesp 8y ago
Last redesign of Chrome was good. Very good browser, deserves to be afloat.
ralusek 8y ago
Dying to get off Chrome but FF has been giving me soso performance on 2015 MBP. Video playback is iffy and battery usage is terrible =/
- mojo982 8y ago
  I'm with you. I use Firefox as my daily driver, but it really makes my dual-core processor struggle (2015 MBP for home, 2017 for work). It's a great browser in every way except performance. They really need to prioritize that.
  - jasonkostempski 8y ago
    Out of curiosity, do either of you run uBlock Origin to help block misbehaving background stuff, or any other plugins that might contribute to battery usage?
    - mywittyname 8y ago
      NoScript really accelerates performance on my FF install. Places like Buzzfeed are unusable on my laptop without it. Excessive JS usage is probably the culprit behind the move to Chrome. A number of popular sites are so packed with JS that using Chrome is the only way for normal users to achieve reasonable performance.
      - organicmultiloc 8y ago
        Nowadays every webpage downloads 2 megabytes of framework JS and css preprocessors and analytics trackers and then pegs the CPU for a few milliseconds to display a paragraph of text. If the page actually does anything on top of that the problem grows quickly.
  - jefurii 8y ago
    FF runs fine on my six-year-old Thinkpad. Of course I run PrivacyBadger which blocks most adverts and trackers. Are we really saying that Chrome is just more efficient at wasting CPU cycles to show adverts?
PunchTornado 8y ago
I'm always using FF for casual browsing, but Chrome for devwork
- YourMatt 8y ago
  Funny how I'm the exact opposite. I like Chrome for general browsing because my bookmarks and open tabs are known to all other devices, out of the box. Besides that, it seems faster. I use Firefox Developer Edition for dev work. I prefer Fx's tools, and it's a walled garden where I don't have any other plugins that could possibly interfere with anything I'm doing.
jeffmcmahan 8y ago
This is important, but Safari has a stable market position too (macOS + iOS), so the worst case scenario will not be as lousy as the early 2000s situation w/IE. I tried to switch to FF completely - for dev work and all - late last year. The dev tools were just not as good as Chrome/Chromium. I use FF for browsing. I'll try to make the dev switch again, starting today.
- majora2007 8y ago
  I also did the same and from a dev standpoint, Chrome is far ahead. FF makes it difficult to even use breakpoints or alter psuedo styles in the browser, which is really needed for a lot of development work.

33 points by Jerry2 8y ago

I hope that more webdevs recognize this is just leading into a new era of IE but with Chrome and start pushing people into Firefox (atm they're pushing into Chrome via 'works only in chrome' messages that are factually false most of the time given the websites work with a UA changer)

giancarlostoro 8y ago
The most depressing truth that I've mentioned as well on HN many times. Chrome is the new IE. I have never stopped using Firefox. I was an early Chrome user till I realized no adblock, then when adblock came it was weak and barely worked and gave up on Chrome altogether. Firefox has always had powerful customization without screwing the end user in the long run. At least back in the mid 2000s if you ever saw banners that said a site needed Firefox to run properly it was because people were on IE which didn't support new standard HTML features. Not because devs didn't test their JS outside of Chrome. If you can't code for more than one browser you shouldn't be a web developer imho. Unless you're doing Electron or something.
organicmultiloc 8y ago
I think most web developers have been very wary of Google and Chrome since 2010 or so.
- zaarn 8y ago
  Depends on the web developer. People who actually write websites people use and thusly they support everything from IE11 and up. Or the ones that shit out the latest trend in webdev which only supports the Chrome version the author used.
doorbumper 8y ago
I want more than anything to use Firefox, but the fact remains that they have internal issues that prevent them from creating a quality product. Slow startup times, constant hangs, memory leaks, crashes, and general sluggishness prevent even people who care from using Firefox. Firefox will never match Chrome head-to-head, and is a dying browser. Then only way Chrome doesn't win is if a new competitor appears.
- _tulpa 8y ago
  Have you used Firefox since Quantum was released? I switched back to Firefox around version 57, and the only 'performance issue' was initially having to re-learn stuff that was muscle memory in Chrome. Once I got up to speed the user experience is indistinguishable from Chrome - even on the crappy old netbook I sometimes have to use. The thing that might kill firefox is the aforementioned shitty web devs with their bogus UA checks, Firefox having a history of bad performance/stability, and most people already using Chrome with no reason to consider switching.
s17n 8y ago
IE won because it was better than Netscape, Firefox won because it was better than IE, Chrome won because it was better than Firefox. As far as I can tell the whole history of browser market share is just one long example of the market working exactly as it should and everybody benefitting.
- zaarn 8y ago
  Browser Monocultures are not good, even if Firefox is the dominating browser. In an ideal world we'd have about 25% to Edge, 25% to Safari, 25% to Firefox and 25% to Chrome.

miaklesp 8y ago

Last redesign of Chrome was good. Very good browser, deserves to be afloat.

ralusek 8y ago

Dying to get off Chrome but FF has been giving me soso performance on 2015 MBP. Video playback is iffy and battery usage is terrible =/

mojo982 8y ago
I'm with you. I use Firefox as my daily driver, but it really makes my dual-core processor struggle (2015 MBP for home, 2017 for work). It's a great browser in every way except performance. They really need to prioritize that.
- jasonkostempski 8y ago
  Out of curiosity, do either of you run uBlock Origin to help block misbehaving background stuff, or any other plugins that might contribute to battery usage?
  - mywittyname 8y ago
    NoScript really accelerates performance on my FF install. Places like Buzzfeed are unusable on my laptop without it. Excessive JS usage is probably the culprit behind the move to Chrome. A number of popular sites are so packed with JS that using Chrome is the only way for normal users to achieve reasonable performance.
    - organicmultiloc 8y ago
      Nowadays every webpage downloads 2 megabytes of framework JS and css preprocessors and analytics trackers and then pegs the CPU for a few milliseconds to display a paragraph of text. If the page actually does anything on top of that the problem grows quickly.
- jefurii 8y ago
  FF runs fine on my six-year-old Thinkpad. Of course I run PrivacyBadger which blocks most adverts and trackers. Are we really saying that Chrome is just more efficient at wasting CPU cycles to show adverts?

PunchTornado 8y ago

I'm always using FF for casual browsing, but Chrome for devwork

YourMatt 8y ago
Funny how I'm the exact opposite. I like Chrome for general browsing because my bookmarks and open tabs are known to all other devices, out of the box. Besides that, it seems faster. I use Firefox Developer Edition for dev work. I prefer Fx's tools, and it's a walled garden where I don't have any other plugins that could possibly interfere with anything I'm doing.

jeffmcmahan 8y ago

This is important, but Safari has a stable market position too (macOS + iOS), so the worst case scenario will not be as lousy as the early 2000s situation w/IE. I tried to switch to FF completely - for dev work and all - late last year. The dev tools were just not as good as Chrome/Chromium. I use FF for browsing. I'll try to make the dev switch again, starting today.

majora2007 8y ago
I also did the same and from a dev standpoint, Chrome is far ahead. FF makes it difficult to even use breakpoints or alter psuedo styles in the browser, which is really needed for a lot of development work.