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One could argue that what really decided Normandy's fate, and the fate of all of occupied France, was Operation Bagration, the real gut-punch that smashed the W

One could argue that what really decided Normandy's fate, and the fate of all of occupied France, was Operation Bagration, the real gut-punch that smashed the Wehrmacht and broke them, hundreds of miles to the east. The scale and savagery of war on the eastern front is so mind boggingly incomprehensible, and relatively unknown for an English-speaking audience. If you have not, I highly recommend Dan Carlin's Ghosts of the Ostfront series of podcasts, to get even a sense of the insanity. The western front was, in totality, almost a sideshow in comparison to the titanic, inhuman struggle raging from Black to Baltic seas.

dirktheman 8y ago
The same goes for WWI. I'm not downplaying the horrors and scale of the Marne, Somme and Aisne, but the siege of Przemyśl, the battle of Lemberg were comparable yet not nearly as infamous. When we think of WWI we think of the trenches in Belgium and northern France. Sure, Belgium was hit pretty hard (120,000 casualties, about 1,7% of population) but compare that to Serbia: 1 million casualties, a staggering 25% of population... and most people don't even realize that Serbia was affected by the war in the first place.
- megaman22 8y ago
  The austro-hungarian war, and its futility is also incredible - I don't have the title now, but I've read something outlining their mobilization plan up to Tannenberg. The whole Balkans region that started the conflagration is so confusing and bloody...
manangatangy 8y ago
> mind boggingly incomprehensible Absolutely agree. I strongly recommend this interactive illustration of the casualties of ww2, which really drives home the scale of this catastrophe. [1] http://www.fallen.io/ww2/ http://www.fallen.io/ww2/
- deleted 8y ago
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Iv 8y ago
1.5 million troops (not even counting civilians) died at the siege of Leningrad. One million at the battle of Stalingrad. To most people, "Kursk" is the name of a submarine but it is also the biggest tanks battle of the history of mankind, and the point where USSR made the tide turn in favor of the allies. This battle alone saw more death than the campaign of Normandy. It is funny how these things work. We tend to put an heroic filter on the Allies' operation on the D-Day and trivialize the French defense in 1940 as a buffoonery despite both having a similar death toll. And we ignore the big battles that bled to death the USSR and that actually won the war. One can't understand stalinism and the Russian brand of nationalism without knowing that history.
skgoa 8y ago
> I highly recommend Dan Carlin's Ghosts of the Ostfront series of podcasts, to get even a sense of the insanity. Just don't take any factual claims Carlin makes as fact. He is a storyteller, not a historian. He editorializes his stories a lot.
gandhium 8y ago
> The scale and savagery of war on the eastern front is so mind boggingly incomprehensible Logistic and thought behind the D-Day is also mind-boggingly incomprehensible. Can we stop glorifying Stalin's butchery, please? Yes, they've managed to lose 10 times more soldiers than British and US combined and suffered enormous loss of civilian lives. But you know why? Because Communist leaders had no respect for human lives.

dirktheman 8y ago

The same goes for WWI. I'm not downplaying the horrors and scale of the Marne, Somme and Aisne, but the siege of Przemyśl, the battle of Lemberg were comparable yet not nearly as infamous. When we think of WWI we think of the trenches in Belgium and northern France. Sure, Belgium was hit pretty hard (120,000 casualties, about 1,7% of population) but compare that to Serbia: 1 million casualties, a staggering 25% of population... and most people don't even realize that Serbia was affected by the war in the first place.

megaman22 8y ago
The austro-hungarian war, and its futility is also incredible - I don't have the title now, but I've read something outlining their mobilization plan up to Tannenberg. The whole Balkans region that started the conflagration is so confusing and bloody...

manangatangy 8y ago

> mind boggingly incomprehensible Absolutely agree. I strongly recommend this interactive illustration of the casualties of ww2, which really drives home the scale of this catastrophe. [1] http://www.fallen.io/ww2/ http://www.fallen.io/ww2/

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Iv 8y ago

1.5 million troops (not even counting civilians) died at the siege of Leningrad. One million at the battle of Stalingrad. To most people, "Kursk" is the name of a submarine but it is also the biggest tanks battle of the history of mankind, and the point where USSR made the tide turn in favor of the allies. This battle alone saw more death than the campaign of Normandy. It is funny how these things work. We tend to put an heroic filter on the Allies' operation on the D-Day and trivialize the French defense in 1940 as a buffoonery despite both having a similar death toll. And we ignore the big battles that bled to death the USSR and that actually won the war. One can't understand stalinism and the Russian brand of nationalism without knowing that history.

skgoa 8y ago

> I highly recommend Dan Carlin's Ghosts of the Ostfront series of podcasts, to get even a sense of the insanity. Just don't take any factual claims Carlin makes as fact. He is a storyteller, not a historian. He editorializes his stories a lot.

gandhium 8y ago

> The scale and savagery of war on the eastern front is so mind boggingly incomprehensible Logistic and thought behind the D-Day is also mind-boggingly incomprehensible. Can we stop glorifying Stalin's butchery, please? Yes, they've managed to lose 10 times more soldiers than British and US combined and suffered enormous loss of civilian lives. But you know why? Because Communist leaders had no respect for human lives.