5 ms·

> The tokens would be tainted, unspendable, and worthless. No they wouldn't because the whole "decentralized system" makes it so you have to get EVERYONE to ag

by mrep 8y ago

> The tokens would be tainted, unspendable, and worthless. No they wouldn't because the whole "decentralized system" makes it so you have to get EVERYONE to agree to blacklist those tokens BEFORE THEY ARE TRADED or else it fails because the hacker can tumble those tokens across dozens of different cryptocurrencies on every exchange across thousands of accounts. You will never be able to hard fork every cryptocurrency for 1 mistake. The only hack that I have ever heard of that was successfully reversed was the DOA and that was because they had 30 days to work out a hard fork on 1 wallet! Cryptocurrencies are good for one thing only and that is blackhats.

ISL 8y ago
It only takes a few countries imprisoning people who trade in tainted coins/tokens before they become untouchable. Public ledgers are public. If the US IRS, perhaps coordinated with Interpol, publishes a blacklist of coins, those coins are toast.
- Felz 8y ago
  Uh, so wait. If the IRS/Interpol becomes an effective source of truth on which coins may be legally transferred and who rightfully owns them, what was the point of the blockchain?
  - ISL 8y ago
    We are all going to find out. At the very least, the blockchain provides a degree of global immutability that was previously impossible.
    - mrep 8y ago
      That immutability is terrible feature. Type one letter wrong on your wallet address and your money is gone forever. I myself have experienced something similar when a bank teller provided me with a routing number from a chase bank in a different state then I originally set up my account. Thus, my entire direct deposit pay for a month of $6,000 went to an account set for a chase routing number in a different state. Fortunately, I went to the bank soon after and they fixed it by putting the money in my proper account. If they had used a cryptocurrency, I would have lost an entire months pay.
      - dmurray 8y ago
        You have something like a 1 in 4 billion chance of entering a valid bitcoin address if you made a typo, whether it's "one letter wrong" or some other combination of changes (there's a 32 bit checksum). So actually this never happens.
        dnomad 8y ago
        This sort of thing happens all the time. Hackers routinely attack web sites and change wallet addresses [1]. They setup fake Twitter accounts, fake web sites, muck up exchanges with fake listings, and in some cases even hold fake investor meetings. By some estimates hackers have stolen $400m from ICOs [2]. All of this nonsense is possible precisely because crypto transactions are irreversible so the currency users have absolutely no recourse. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/coindash-website-hacked-7-million-stolen-in-ico.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/coindash-website-hacked-7-mi... [2] http://fortune.com/2018/01/22/ico-2018-coin-bitcoin-hack/ http://fortune.com/2018/01/22/ico-2018-coin-bitcoin-hack/
        dmurray 8y ago
        Yes, cryptocurrency institutions get hacked and their customers lose money (more often proportionately, it seems, than their dollar equivalents). I was replying, however, to the ill-founded claim that people lose money by mistyping a single wrong letter in a bitcoin address.
        Cthulhu_ 8y ago
        Does a BTC address that does not exist cause an error or does it go into oblivion until someone happens to generate a key that matches it?
        cdiddy2 8y ago
        Goes into oblivion. How would you send funds to a newly created address if that wasn't the case? The bitcoin network doesnt know which addresses are ready to be used on the network and which aren't since there isn't any setup the address does with the network prior to being operational.
- mrep 8y ago
  Who are you going to imprison? By the time you realize you have been hacked, your coins will have been traded to dozens of other cryptocurrencies across thousands of different wallets. Is your plan to screw over all the original traders who exchanged tokens with the original blackhat?
  - ISL 8y ago
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2315 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2315 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods At the very least, those who inadvertently purchase stolen property tend to have to return it to the victim of the original crime. https://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/must-a-pawn-shop-return-stolen-property-to-its-owner/ https://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/must-a-pawn-shop-return-st... TL;DR: Yes. That is how the existing legal system works. If you think something might be stolen, don't buy it.

by mrep 8y ago

ISL 8y ago

It only takes a few countries imprisoning people who trade in tainted coins/tokens before they become untouchable. Public ledgers are public. If the US IRS, perhaps coordinated with Interpol, publishes a blacklist of coins, those coins are toast.

Felz 8y ago
Uh, so wait. If the IRS/Interpol becomes an effective source of truth on which coins may be legally transferred and who rightfully owns them, what was the point of the blockchain?
- ISL 8y ago
  We are all going to find out. At the very least, the blockchain provides a degree of global immutability that was previously impossible.
  - mrep 8y ago
    That immutability is terrible feature. Type one letter wrong on your wallet address and your money is gone forever. I myself have experienced something similar when a bank teller provided me with a routing number from a chase bank in a different state then I originally set up my account. Thus, my entire direct deposit pay for a month of $6,000 went to an account set for a chase routing number in a different state. Fortunately, I went to the bank soon after and they fixed it by putting the money in my proper account. If they had used a cryptocurrency, I would have lost an entire months pay.
    - dmurray 8y ago
      You have something like a 1 in 4 billion chance of entering a valid bitcoin address if you made a typo, whether it's "one letter wrong" or some other combination of changes (there's a 32 bit checksum). So actually this never happens.
      - dnomad 8y ago
        This sort of thing happens all the time. Hackers routinely attack web sites and change wallet addresses [1]. They setup fake Twitter accounts, fake web sites, muck up exchanges with fake listings, and in some cases even hold fake investor meetings. By some estimates hackers have stolen $400m from ICOs [2]. All of this nonsense is possible precisely because crypto transactions are irreversible so the currency users have absolutely no recourse. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/coindash-website-hacked-7-million-stolen-in-ico.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/coindash-website-hacked-7-mi... [2] http://fortune.com/2018/01/22/ico-2018-coin-bitcoin-hack/ http://fortune.com/2018/01/22/ico-2018-coin-bitcoin-hack/
        dmurray 8y ago
        Yes, cryptocurrency institutions get hacked and their customers lose money (more often proportionately, it seems, than their dollar equivalents). I was replying, however, to the ill-founded claim that people lose money by mistyping a single wrong letter in a bitcoin address.
      - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
        Does a BTC address that does not exist cause an error or does it go into oblivion until someone happens to generate a key that matches it?
        cdiddy2 8y ago
        Goes into oblivion. How would you send funds to a newly created address if that wasn't the case? The bitcoin network doesnt know which addresses are ready to be used on the network and which aren't since there isn't any setup the address does with the network prior to being operational.
mrep 8y ago
Who are you going to imprison? By the time you realize you have been hacked, your coins will have been traded to dozens of other cryptocurrencies across thousands of different wallets. Is your plan to screw over all the original traders who exchanged tokens with the original blackhat?
- ISL 8y ago
  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2315 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2315 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods At the very least, those who inadvertently purchase stolen property tend to have to return it to the victim of the original crime. https://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/must-a-pawn-shop-return-stolen-property-to-its-owner/ https://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/must-a-pawn-shop-return-st... TL;DR: Yes. That is how the existing legal system works. If you think something might be stolen, don't buy it.