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Why so much hate for Tesla? Maybe Elon is over confident, over enthusiastic, short sighted, etc. but his vision is world class and world changing. And he has

Why so much hate for Tesla? Maybe Elon is over confident, over enthusiastic, short sighted, etc. but his vision is world class and world changing. And he has delivered, consistently.

jcranmer 8y ago
Substitute Elon Musk and Tesla (particularly back in 2017) with Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos back in 2014, before the big exposés started coming out. From the perspective of the lay investor, what distinguishes the two cases? This goes to answer both your comment and (at present) the top comment of this post, which asks why people ignore a chorus of naysayers saying that what's being done is impossible. The entire mindset of the Silicon Valley disrupter--we're the plucky underdog fighting an established oligopoly by doing the impossible (at least for the established oligarchs)--is very ripe for an unethical fraudster to milk. Distinguishing between the two cases is not easy, especially given the tendency to believe your own hype and oversell your current capabilities.
- fragsworth 8y ago
  This same exact problem is happening in crypto today, but on a much larger scale and in a much more terrifying way. ICO after ICO, people with highly technical backgrounds are making huge claims, many of which are certainly impossible. It is too difficult for a layman to figure out which ones, if any, are legitimate. It requires months of studying to have any idea. Even some of the brightest folks in Crypto (like Vitalik Buterin) seem to avoid talking about other groups (like Cardano), I'm guessing because it's just so damn hard to figure anything out with any certainty. And I think this is intentional on the part of the newer ICOs, because they are largely scamming everyone. What is Vitalik going to say - "I don't understand Cardano"? That wouldn't go over well.
- psergeant 8y ago
  > From the perspective of the lay investor, what distinguishes the two cases? You can buy a Tesla car today, strip it down, and confirm it works and isn’t a giant Potemkin village?
  - buvanshak 8y ago
    >You can buy a Tesla car today, strip it down, and confirm it works and isn’t a giant Potemkin village? What about "Full self driving hardware"? I am pretty sure you are not going to find it there. And people have bought them thinking that it (full self driving functionality) is just one update away...
    - dpark 8y ago
      In fairness, Tesla has promised that at some point in the future. They have not claimed that they have full self driving currently. Theranos claimed to have their system working.
      - buvanshak 8y ago
        The claim is full self driving hardware right now, right?
        dpark 8y ago
        Shrug. Maybe they do have everything they need for self-driving in terms of hardware. Given that no one has full self-driving, no one has an actual list of the necessary hardware. I still see a claim about future functionality as a far different thing (even if they are wrong) than a false claim about existing functionality.
        buvanshak 8y ago
        > Given that no one has full self-driving, no one has an actual list of the necessary hardware. Exactly what makes this false claim. Imagine someone gave you a drug and claim that it can cure cancer. It would be a false claim, even though it is possible that in future, it might turn out to be capable of curing cancer, by some specific method of application. The only problem is that that method is unknown today and no indication that such method might actually exist.. So just because in theory, you can strap on two forward facing cameras and call it full "self driving hardware" (because that is what humans have). Would you consider it legit?
JTbane 8y ago
Tesla is in a "better late than never" situation with production bottlenecks.

Why so much hate for Tesla? Maybe Elon is over confident, over enthusiastic, short sighted, etc. but his vision is world class and world changing. And he has delivered, consistently.

jcranmer 8y ago

Substitute Elon Musk and Tesla (particularly back in 2017) with Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos back in 2014, before the big exposés started coming out. From the perspective of the lay investor, what distinguishes the two cases? This goes to answer both your comment and (at present) the top comment of this post, which asks why people ignore a chorus of naysayers saying that what's being done is impossible. The entire mindset of the Silicon Valley disrupter--we're the plucky underdog fighting an established oligopoly by doing the impossible (at least for the established oligarchs)--is very ripe for an unethical fraudster to milk. Distinguishing between the two cases is not easy, especially given the tendency to believe your own hype and oversell your current capabilities.

fragsworth 8y ago
This same exact problem is happening in crypto today, but on a much larger scale and in a much more terrifying way. ICO after ICO, people with highly technical backgrounds are making huge claims, many of which are certainly impossible. It is too difficult for a layman to figure out which ones, if any, are legitimate. It requires months of studying to have any idea. Even some of the brightest folks in Crypto (like Vitalik Buterin) seem to avoid talking about other groups (like Cardano), I'm guessing because it's just so damn hard to figure anything out with any certainty. And I think this is intentional on the part of the newer ICOs, because they are largely scamming everyone. What is Vitalik going to say - "I don't understand Cardano"? That wouldn't go over well.
psergeant 8y ago
> From the perspective of the lay investor, what distinguishes the two cases? You can buy a Tesla car today, strip it down, and confirm it works and isn’t a giant Potemkin village?
- buvanshak 8y ago
  >You can buy a Tesla car today, strip it down, and confirm it works and isn’t a giant Potemkin village? What about "Full self driving hardware"? I am pretty sure you are not going to find it there. And people have bought them thinking that it (full self driving functionality) is just one update away...
  - dpark 8y ago
    In fairness, Tesla has promised that at some point in the future. They have not claimed that they have full self driving currently. Theranos claimed to have their system working.
    - buvanshak 8y ago
      The claim is full self driving hardware right now, right?
      - dpark 8y ago
        Shrug. Maybe they do have everything they need for self-driving in terms of hardware. Given that no one has full self-driving, no one has an actual list of the necessary hardware. I still see a claim about future functionality as a far different thing (even if they are wrong) than a false claim about existing functionality.
        buvanshak 8y ago
        > Given that no one has full self-driving, no one has an actual list of the necessary hardware. Exactly what makes this false claim. Imagine someone gave you a drug and claim that it can cure cancer. It would be a false claim, even though it is possible that in future, it might turn out to be capable of curing cancer, by some specific method of application. The only problem is that that method is unknown today and no indication that such method might actually exist.. So just because in theory, you can strap on two forward facing cameras and call it full "self driving hardware" (because that is what humans have). Would you consider it legit?

JTbane 8y ago

Tesla is in a "better late than never" situation with production bottlenecks.