5 ms·

Soon enough, potentially, tokenized securities that represent shares of anything you can think of.

by gomox 8y ago

vkou 8y ago
The cost of tracking and trading securities tokens isn't the reason for why there aren't shares for 'anything you can think of'. Is this actually solving a real problem that someone has?
- gomox 8y ago
  I am in Argentina. I can do an investment on a company being founded in France tomorrow and cash out in 3 months on a secondary market to a buyer in Angola. The friction involved in doing this in a pre-crypto world makes it a non-starter. One of the reason VC has its characteristic geographical distribution is because exit opportunities are extremely localized. No more. This in turn unlocks a ton of talent-capital synergy opportunities for a myriad of projects outside of the large tech hubs.
  - vkou 8y ago
    But you're not doing it because of any intrinsic property of crypto-coins. You're doing it because they haven't been regulated yet. (I am not implying any ill intent on your part.) You could do the same thing with normal investments, if trading houses and banks didn't do any KYC checks.
    - gomox 8y ago
      I don't know about "intrinsic". No other asset class has the same characteristics. It's making investments viable that were not viable before. No regulation exists now in conventional banking that prevents me from doing that investment without crypto. It's just not practical and therefore unviable. I would need to surf through 3 different bureaucracies in 3 different languages and currencies. If you are doing this kind of thing, it's in your best interest to always do KYC, mostly not for AML - just for general due diligence purposes. The fundamental thing is disintermediation, not deregulation. Regulation might be able to kill the space, but it would really be a triumph of the incumbents over a real progress opportunity. PS I'm going at it from the investor angle here but it goes without saying that enabling investment enables entrepreneurship.
      - tome 8y ago
        > it's in your best interest to always do KYC And why will this never hold for similar transactions done on the blockchain?
        gomox 8y ago
        I meant that for VC-type deals done on the blockchain.
      - s73v3r_ 8y ago
        The only reason Crypto has those characteristics is because most of the crypto trading platform flat out ignore the law.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  I'm working on trading an security, but it will not be done on blockchain. Blockchain is expensive and slow. Centralize it and be a business that provides a good customer experience.
Nursie 8y ago
>> Soon enough, potentially, tokenized securities that represent shares of anything you can think of. Do you think they will actually represent shares? As far as I can tell, all current ICOs have not represented any ownership or share of anything, other than the token itself.
- gomox 8y ago
  Most ICOs don't sell security tokens. They sell utility tokens. But many ICOs have happened that sold security tokens, they just tend to be more discreet these days because of the limits on public security offerings. The security token space is also very immature still. On the other end of the discreetness spectrum, The DAO was a security ICO and it was the largest crowdsourced project in history at the time.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    They also tended to be the, "We have all the money, now let's bail" kind of tokens.
    - gomox 8y ago
      Really? Can you point to a single security token issuance that was an exit scam?
      - s73v3r_ 8y ago
        Are you honestly trying to say that there have not been ICO scams? That this has not happened? https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/13/exit-scammers-run-off-with-660-million-in-ico-earnings/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/13/exit-scammers-run-off-with... https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/18/another-day-another-50-million-ico-exit-scam/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/18/another-day-another-50-mil... https://cointelegraph.com/news/unpacking-the-5-biggest-cryptocurrency-scams https://cointelegraph.com/news/unpacking-the-5-biggest-crypt... Do you need more?
        8y ago

Soon enough, potentially, tokenized securities that represent shares of anything you can think of.

by gomox 8y ago

Soon enough, potentially, tokenized securities that represent shares of anything you can think of.

vkou 8y ago

The cost of tracking and trading securities tokens isn't the reason for why there aren't shares for 'anything you can think of'. Is this actually solving a real problem that someone has?

gomox 8y ago
I am in Argentina. I can do an investment on a company being founded in France tomorrow and cash out in 3 months on a secondary market to a buyer in Angola. The friction involved in doing this in a pre-crypto world makes it a non-starter. One of the reason VC has its characteristic geographical distribution is because exit opportunities are extremely localized. No more. This in turn unlocks a ton of talent-capital synergy opportunities for a myriad of projects outside of the large tech hubs.
- vkou 8y ago
  But you're not doing it because of any intrinsic property of crypto-coins. You're doing it because they haven't been regulated yet. (I am not implying any ill intent on your part.) You could do the same thing with normal investments, if trading houses and banks didn't do any KYC checks.
  - gomox 8y ago
    I don't know about "intrinsic". No other asset class has the same characteristics. It's making investments viable that were not viable before. No regulation exists now in conventional banking that prevents me from doing that investment without crypto. It's just not practical and therefore unviable. I would need to surf through 3 different bureaucracies in 3 different languages and currencies. If you are doing this kind of thing, it's in your best interest to always do KYC, mostly not for AML - just for general due diligence purposes. The fundamental thing is disintermediation, not deregulation. Regulation might be able to kill the space, but it would really be a triumph of the incumbents over a real progress opportunity. PS I'm going at it from the investor angle here but it goes without saying that enabling investment enables entrepreneurship.
    - tome 8y ago
      > it's in your best interest to always do KYC And why will this never hold for similar transactions done on the blockchain?
      - gomox 8y ago
        I meant that for VC-type deals done on the blockchain.
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      The only reason Crypto has those characteristics is because most of the crypto trading platform flat out ignore the law.
mkirklions 8y ago
I'm working on trading an security, but it will not be done on blockchain. Blockchain is expensive and slow. Centralize it and be a business that provides a good customer experience.

Nursie 8y ago

>> Soon enough, potentially, tokenized securities that represent shares of anything you can think of. Do you think they will actually represent shares? As far as I can tell, all current ICOs have not represented any ownership or share of anything, other than the token itself.

gomox 8y ago
Most ICOs don't sell security tokens. They sell utility tokens. But many ICOs have happened that sold security tokens, they just tend to be more discreet these days because of the limits on public security offerings. The security token space is also very immature still. On the other end of the discreetness spectrum, The DAO was a security ICO and it was the largest crowdsourced project in history at the time.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  They also tended to be the, "We have all the money, now let's bail" kind of tokens.
  - gomox 8y ago
    Really? Can you point to a single security token issuance that was an exit scam?
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      Are you honestly trying to say that there have not been ICO scams? That this has not happened? https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/13/exit-scammers-run-off-with-660-million-in-ico-earnings/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/13/exit-scammers-run-off-with... https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/18/another-day-another-50-million-ico-exit-scam/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/18/another-day-another-50-mil... https://cointelegraph.com/news/unpacking-the-5-biggest-cryptocurrency-scams https://cointelegraph.com/news/unpacking-the-5-biggest-crypt... Do you need more?
      - 8y ago