6 ms·

The difference between fraud and development is a very small one. As Telsa motors will show in the next 9 months.

hawkice 8y ago
The difference between truth and falsehood matters quite a lot to the people buying and selling securities. Whether you think it matters or not, it definitely determines price, and does so independently of a bubble.
- zeth___ 8y ago
  The second you're dealing with someone more complicated than an electron true and false are irrelevant. What matters is how true and false something is. Theranos was more false than true, but then again so it Tesla. How Musk will be treated after Telsa implodes will tell us a lot about how sexist our culture is. I'd personally be going for the pitchforks but I don't see many others doing the same.
  - themaninthedark 8y ago
    You are comparing apples to oranges. I have not followed Theranos closely but from what I have read they had no product at all. This would make Theranos completely false. Musk may be over promising as to what his company can deliver with regards to number of units but he has a working product. This is something that has happened time and time again in all industries, if he fails than he is just another run of the mill failure.
    - zeth___ 8y ago
      We will make a blood test unit that's the side of a thumb nail and we will build an electric sedan for $35k are both lies. Tesla has no product, they have an expensive prototype.
kumarvvr 8y ago
Why so much hate for Tesla? Maybe Elon is over confident, over enthusiastic, short sighted, etc. but his vision is world class and world changing. And he has delivered, consistently.
- jcranmer 8y ago
  Substitute Elon Musk and Tesla (particularly back in 2017) with Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos back in 2014, before the big exposés started coming out. From the perspective of the lay investor, what distinguishes the two cases? This goes to answer both your comment and (at present) the top comment of this post, which asks why people ignore a chorus of naysayers saying that what's being done is impossible. The entire mindset of the Silicon Valley disrupter--we're the plucky underdog fighting an established oligopoly by doing the impossible (at least for the established oligarchs)--is very ripe for an unethical fraudster to milk. Distinguishing between the two cases is not easy, especially given the tendency to believe your own hype and oversell your current capabilities.
  - fragsworth 8y ago
    This same exact problem is happening in crypto today, but on a much larger scale and in a much more terrifying way. ICO after ICO, people with highly technical backgrounds are making huge claims, many of which are certainly impossible. It is too difficult for a layman to figure out which ones, if any, are legitimate. It requires months of studying to have any idea. Even some of the brightest folks in Crypto (like Vitalik Buterin) seem to avoid talking about other groups (like Cardano), I'm guessing because it's just so damn hard to figure anything out with any certainty. And I think this is intentional on the part of the newer ICOs, because they are largely scamming everyone. What is Vitalik going to say - "I don't understand Cardano"? That wouldn't go over well.
  - psergeant 8y ago
    > From the perspective of the lay investor, what distinguishes the two cases? You can buy a Tesla car today, strip it down, and confirm it works and isn’t a giant Potemkin village?

The difference between truth and falsehood matters quite a lot to the people buying and selling securities. Whether you think it matters or not, it definitely determines price, and does so independently of a bubble.

zeth___ 8y ago
The second you're dealing with someone more complicated than an electron true and false are irrelevant. What matters is how true and false something is. Theranos was more false than true, but then again so it Tesla. How Musk will be treated after Telsa implodes will tell us a lot about how sexist our culture is. I'd personally be going for the pitchforks but I don't see many others doing the same.
- themaninthedark 8y ago
  You are comparing apples to oranges. I have not followed Theranos closely but from what I have read they had no product at all. This would make Theranos completely false. Musk may be over promising as to what his company can deliver with regards to number of units but he has a working product. This is something that has happened time and time again in all industries, if he fails than he is just another run of the mill failure.
  - zeth___ 8y ago
    We will make a blood test unit that's the side of a thumb nail and we will build an electric sedan for $35k are both lies. Tesla has no product, they have an expensive prototype.

kumarvvr 8y ago

Why so much hate for Tesla? Maybe Elon is over confident, over enthusiastic, short sighted, etc. but his vision is world class and world changing. And he has delivered, consistently.

jcranmer 8y ago
Substitute Elon Musk and Tesla (particularly back in 2017) with Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos back in 2014, before the big exposés started coming out. From the perspective of the lay investor, what distinguishes the two cases? This goes to answer both your comment and (at present) the top comment of this post, which asks why people ignore a chorus of naysayers saying that what's being done is impossible. The entire mindset of the Silicon Valley disrupter--we're the plucky underdog fighting an established oligopoly by doing the impossible (at least for the established oligarchs)--is very ripe for an unethical fraudster to milk. Distinguishing between the two cases is not easy, especially given the tendency to believe your own hype and oversell your current capabilities.
- fragsworth 8y ago
  This same exact problem is happening in crypto today, but on a much larger scale and in a much more terrifying way. ICO after ICO, people with highly technical backgrounds are making huge claims, many of which are certainly impossible. It is too difficult for a layman to figure out which ones, if any, are legitimate. It requires months of studying to have any idea. Even some of the brightest folks in Crypto (like Vitalik Buterin) seem to avoid talking about other groups (like Cardano), I'm guessing because it's just so damn hard to figure anything out with any certainty. And I think this is intentional on the part of the newer ICOs, because they are largely scamming everyone. What is Vitalik going to say - "I don't understand Cardano"? That wouldn't go over well.
- psergeant 8y ago
  > From the perspective of the lay investor, what distinguishes the two cases? You can buy a Tesla car today, strip it down, and confirm it works and isn’t a giant Potemkin village?