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It could have been a positioning move to justify firing down the road. I freelance now but when I went through 9-5 I found the key to positive outcomes was alwa

It could have been a positioning move to justify firing down the road. I freelance now but when I went through 9-5 I found the key to positive outcomes was always tied to confidence. The confidence I tried to harness cane in a form of acting like I was the boss with nobody above me. I found that my own bosses saw this as a strength and never questioned my judgement. Even when someone came back with logical counterpoints I'd stick up for my opinion very aggressively. I can't imagine working in a place that yells at me - that would be the final nail in the coffin where I would that that person everything I think of them and their inaptitude to "manage". I guess that's why I no longer punch the clock.

Mandatum 8y ago
> Even when someone came back with logical counterpoints I'd stick up for my opinion very aggressively. I hate this so much. I hate it even more, because it's mostly true that it works. YMMV, and I'm talking of non-technical organisations or organisation where tech is a cost-centre rather than value-add. Those who don't fully understand it (it being whatever technical disagreement or choice made), which is usually the majority, will side with you. The remainder are usually people who can see that the organisation is structured this way and either give up out of apathy or leave for greener pastures. If someone literally yells at me, I'm out. Notice in that day, usually within the hour. If the organisation is willing to allow that behaviour, it's usually toxic. If I'm on contract (which I always am now), my opinion within that organisation will no longer be respected. Notice of non-renewal immediately.
- robocat 8y ago
  Do you tell your clients before taking on work about your requirements, or is it first strike you're out?
  - eropple 8y ago
    I alternately contract and consult, and I wouldn't think it necessary to tell a client that, if they endorse yelling as interaction, I'm not sticking around. That's normal-people stuff--they should already know Because healthy environments don't do that.
    - robocat 8y ago
      To be clear: I wasn't endorsing yelling. I was just wondering how consultants pre-empt negative results. Surely some clients do yell, and presumably if they think it is acceptable to yell, they would be surprised at an abrupt end to a contract!
      - Mandatum 8y ago
        No I don't tell clients that up front - although I don't think it's necessary to. It's like saying if someone assaults me, or my shortcomings are going to be publicly broadcasted throughout the company, I'd tell them that's not something I'm okay with. Nobody should expect either of those things to happen. On being yelled at, it's only happened once - and I'm pretty sure the person doing the yelling was having a bit of a breakdown. Getting yelled at is a very strange thing in a work environment.
      - eropple 8y ago
        Those are very fireable clients, though.

Mandatum 8y ago

> Even when someone came back with logical counterpoints I'd stick up for my opinion very aggressively. I hate this so much. I hate it even more, because it's mostly true that it works. YMMV, and I'm talking of non-technical organisations or organisation where tech is a cost-centre rather than value-add. Those who don't fully understand it (it being whatever technical disagreement or choice made), which is usually the majority, will side with you. The remainder are usually people who can see that the organisation is structured this way and either give up out of apathy or leave for greener pastures. If someone literally yells at me, I'm out. Notice in that day, usually within the hour. If the organisation is willing to allow that behaviour, it's usually toxic. If I'm on contract (which I always am now), my opinion within that organisation will no longer be respected. Notice of non-renewal immediately.

robocat 8y ago
Do you tell your clients before taking on work about your requirements, or is it first strike you're out?
- eropple 8y ago
  I alternately contract and consult, and I wouldn't think it necessary to tell a client that, if they endorse yelling as interaction, I'm not sticking around. That's normal-people stuff--they should already know Because healthy environments don't do that.
  - robocat 8y ago
    To be clear: I wasn't endorsing yelling. I was just wondering how consultants pre-empt negative results. Surely some clients do yell, and presumably if they think it is acceptable to yell, they would be surprised at an abrupt end to a contract!
    - Mandatum 8y ago
      No I don't tell clients that up front - although I don't think it's necessary to. It's like saying if someone assaults me, or my shortcomings are going to be publicly broadcasted throughout the company, I'd tell them that's not something I'm okay with. Nobody should expect either of those things to happen. On being yelled at, it's only happened once - and I'm pretty sure the person doing the yelling was having a bit of a breakdown. Getting yelled at is a very strange thing in a work environment.
    - eropple 8y ago
      Those are very fireable clients, though.