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Social Security is not a retirement account. We're paying today for the current generation of retirees so we don't have a class of elderly homeless eating cat f

Social Security is not a retirement account. We're paying today for the current generation of retirees so we don't have a class of elderly homeless eating cat food and dying in our streets. Means testing is consistent with this outcome.

craftyguy 8y ago
> so we don't have a class of elderly homeless eating cat food and dying in our streets. Too bad we already do, and the number seems to be increasing rapidly: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/us/americas-aging-homeless-old-and-on-the-street.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/us/americas-aging-homeles... So if Social Security isn't helping with that, what other excuses are there?
- allthenews 8y ago
  The fact that elderly homeless people exist does not imply that current social security policy does nothing. Presumably, if we did away with SS, there would be more on the streets.
roenxi 8y ago
Incentives are much more powerful than intent. It isn't meaningful to talk about intent when assessing the likely outcome of an economic initiative. I can't emphasise this as strongly as I'd like to; in economics we want fairness and the incentives to align, but if they are not going to then incentives trump fairness. Fairness with poor incentives drives bad outcomes, and usually reveals that 'fairness' is 'fairness for some in groups, at the expense of the rest'. Resources are no longer growing as quickly relative to population as they were in the 70s and 80s. We need normal people to make uncomfortable decisions _not_ to consume. Otherwise there are not enough resources when they grow old. Incentivising spending in the present is not a clever idea, even if it isn't intended.
prklmn 8y ago
Means testing gets you nowhere because there are so few people who would qualify as too rich- it would be less than a drop in the bucket "saved." It would be purely symbolic, and it's another way for those in power to say that we punish the rich and social security is a wealth transfer to the poor, then use that as a reason to abolish it. The idea of means testing is totally counterproductive to your goal. Also as an aside, there are wealthy elderly people already not cashing their social security checks, you just don't know it because it makes nearly no difference in the scheme of things.
- encoderer 8y ago
  Probably true, though separate from the argument that means testing is "unfair".
coredog64 8y ago
One of the problems with means testing is that as the average payout declines, so too does support for the program. Without broad support, cuts/changes to SS become less of a third-rail problem.

craftyguy 8y ago

> so we don't have a class of elderly homeless eating cat food and dying in our streets. Too bad we already do, and the number seems to be increasing rapidly: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/us/americas-aging-homeless-old-and-on-the-street.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/us/americas-aging-homeles... So if Social Security isn't helping with that, what other excuses are there?

allthenews 8y ago
The fact that elderly homeless people exist does not imply that current social security policy does nothing. Presumably, if we did away with SS, there would be more on the streets.

roenxi 8y ago

Incentives are much more powerful than intent. It isn't meaningful to talk about intent when assessing the likely outcome of an economic initiative. I can't emphasise this as strongly as I'd like to; in economics we want fairness and the incentives to align, but if they are not going to then incentives trump fairness. Fairness with poor incentives drives bad outcomes, and usually reveals that 'fairness' is 'fairness for some in groups, at the expense of the rest'. Resources are no longer growing as quickly relative to population as they were in the 70s and 80s. We need normal people to make uncomfortable decisions _not_ to consume. Otherwise there are not enough resources when they grow old. Incentivising spending in the present is not a clever idea, even if it isn't intended.

prklmn 8y ago

Means testing gets you nowhere because there are so few people who would qualify as too rich- it would be less than a drop in the bucket "saved." It would be purely symbolic, and it's another way for those in power to say that we punish the rich and social security is a wealth transfer to the poor, then use that as a reason to abolish it. The idea of means testing is totally counterproductive to your goal. Also as an aside, there are wealthy elderly people already not cashing their social security checks, you just don't know it because it makes nearly no difference in the scheme of things.

encoderer 8y ago
Probably true, though separate from the argument that means testing is "unfair".

coredog64 8y ago

One of the problems with means testing is that as the average payout declines, so too does support for the program. Without broad support, cuts/changes to SS become less of a third-rail problem.