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The platonic "Santa Claus" does exist, so it's completely valid. The statement "Santa Claus doesn't exist" is stating there is no judgement from experience whic

by ethn 8y ago

The platonic "Santa Claus" does exist, so it's completely valid. The statement "Santa Claus doesn't exist" is stating there is no judgement from experience which adheres to the concept of Santa Claus.

danbruc 8y ago
The platonic "Santa Claus" does exist, so it's completely valid. Most if not all people would would certainly agree that the idea or concept of »Santa Claus« exists in some way. But when you qualify it with »Platonic« you are implying - intentionally or not - a quite specific view about the nature of abstract objects and that will decrease the number of people agreeing with this statement substantially.
- omon 8y ago
  Not really it's a common noun, which just means non-physical objects which exist in some way, even if Nominalist. You're confusing platonic with Platonic realism which are different things. But perhaps he should edit it to be more clear if the mistake is quite common, albeit perhaps meaning espoused by capitalization has been forgotten.
  - danbruc 8y ago
    In German we do not have that distinction between the different capitalizations, at least not that I am aware of, and the usage of platonic is probably essentially limited to platonic love and relationships. Something learned about the subtleties of the English language.
    - mcbits 8y ago
      We don't have that distinction in English, either. Words derived from names just tend to lose their capitalization over time and may gradually be diluted in meaning as people use them without understanding their origin.
      - ethn 8y ago
        Bold, passive, and mistaken accusation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_noun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_noun But I do see how it could be confused with platonic love, albeit I'm comfortable using it without clarification in the appropriate contexts. You're right, in German all nouns are capitalized.
        mcbits 8y ago
        A more appropriate Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_forms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_forms If you simply meant to say that the idea of Santa Claus obviously "exists" in some sense, thus it's valid to compare our experiences with that idea, then I agree with the comment saying a lot of people would agree with you, but "platonic" is ambiguous at best. If you really did mean to imply that an ideal Santa Claus literally exists in a literal universe of perfect ideal forms, out of which everything in our universe emerges as an imperfect projection, then I agree with the other part of the comment saying you'll find much less agreement with that claim. My comment was that the loss of capitalization and the loss of the word's original meaning are independent phenomena. I.e. the adjective "Platonic" is often being used in the diluted sense of "conceptual" or "mental image of", and that has nothing to do with capitalization.
        ethn 8y ago
        >If you really did mean to imply that an ideal Santa Claus literally exists in a literal universe of perfect ideal forms In philosophy, this is "Platonic Realism" quite different from "platonic", the lower case helps convey information. You make a mistake by assuming "platonic" explicitly conveys "Platonic Realism", given there are many "Platonic *" theories, such as "Platonic Idealism". Because of the ambiguity, as you correctly acknowledge, you are expected to understand it as the wikipedia article on "Platonic" suggests (as some sort of abstract object): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic "Plato's influence on Western culture was so profound that several different concepts are linked by being called "Platonic" or Platonist, for accepting some assumptions of Platonism, but which do not imply acceptance of that philosophy as a whole."

by ethn 8y ago

danbruc 8y ago

The platonic "Santa Claus" does exist, so it's completely valid. Most if not all people would would certainly agree that the idea or concept of »Santa Claus« exists in some way. But when you qualify it with »Platonic« you are implying - intentionally or not - a quite specific view about the nature of abstract objects and that will decrease the number of people agreeing with this statement substantially.

omon 8y ago
Not really it's a common noun, which just means non-physical objects which exist in some way, even if Nominalist. You're confusing platonic with Platonic realism which are different things. But perhaps he should edit it to be more clear if the mistake is quite common, albeit perhaps meaning espoused by capitalization has been forgotten.
- danbruc 8y ago
  In German we do not have that distinction between the different capitalizations, at least not that I am aware of, and the usage of platonic is probably essentially limited to platonic love and relationships. Something learned about the subtleties of the English language.
  - mcbits 8y ago
    We don't have that distinction in English, either. Words derived from names just tend to lose their capitalization over time and may gradually be diluted in meaning as people use them without understanding their origin.
    - ethn 8y ago
      Bold, passive, and mistaken accusation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_noun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_noun But I do see how it could be confused with platonic love, albeit I'm comfortable using it without clarification in the appropriate contexts. You're right, in German all nouns are capitalized.
      - mcbits 8y ago
        A more appropriate Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_forms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_forms If you simply meant to say that the idea of Santa Claus obviously "exists" in some sense, thus it's valid to compare our experiences with that idea, then I agree with the comment saying a lot of people would agree with you, but "platonic" is ambiguous at best. If you really did mean to imply that an ideal Santa Claus literally exists in a literal universe of perfect ideal forms, out of which everything in our universe emerges as an imperfect projection, then I agree with the other part of the comment saying you'll find much less agreement with that claim. My comment was that the loss of capitalization and the loss of the word's original meaning are independent phenomena. I.e. the adjective "Platonic" is often being used in the diluted sense of "conceptual" or "mental image of", and that has nothing to do with capitalization.
        ethn 8y ago
        >If you really did mean to imply that an ideal Santa Claus literally exists in a literal universe of perfect ideal forms In philosophy, this is "Platonic Realism" quite different from "platonic", the lower case helps convey information. You make a mistake by assuming "platonic" explicitly conveys "Platonic Realism", given there are many "Platonic *" theories, such as "Platonic Idealism". Because of the ambiguity, as you correctly acknowledge, you are expected to understand it as the wikipedia article on "Platonic" suggests (as some sort of abstract object): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic "Plato's influence on Western culture was so profound that several different concepts are linked by being called "Platonic" or Platonist, for accepting some assumptions of Platonism, but which do not imply acceptance of that philosophy as a whole."