8 ms·

The article frames this as an act of strange mercy (that prisoners volunteer at a prison hospice). But as someone not born in the US (although I live here), th

The article frames this as an act of strange mercy (that prisoners volunteer at a prison hospice). But as someone not born in the US (although I live here), the existence of a prison hospice with any great number of patients strikes me as an act of unspeakable cruelty. Someone in end-stage palliative care is no risk to society or their victims. The vast majority of those there ought be subject to a compassionate release so they can die with dignity in the care of their family. I cannot fathom that any OECD country besides America would ever have a system like this.

Spooky23 8y ago
This is probably more compassionate. On the outside, they’d be admitted to a hospital ER for some acute condition, then funneled to a county run nursing home or one in the hospitals’ network that needed bodies badly enough to accept a Medicaid patient. If the patient were male, that might be far away from family as no facility wants to be stuck with a male Medicaid patient. If the patient were older, they would do a little better as the initial Medicare reimbursements are higher.
- Archio 8y ago
  >no facility wants to be stuck with a male Medicaid patient I'm curious, can you elaborate as to why that is?
  - joncrane 8y ago
    It seemed highly likely to me because Medicaid's reimbursement rates are very low.
    - LeifCarrotson 8y ago
      I understand that Medicaid rates are low, but why the male/female distinction?
      - bilbo0s 8y ago
        In all fairness, when it comes to end-stage palliative care, there is no male/female distinction with respect to the bottom line. They both hit it pretty hard assuming they qualify.
      - Spooky23 8y ago
        There are a lot more older women than men, and a higher likelihood of getting stuck with a single occupied bed as you cannot bunk male/female. Nursing homes are an awful, evil business.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- mirimir 8y ago
  Agreed. No hospice could afford 24/7 care. Because prisoners are ~free labor. > It’s one of the lowest paid jobs available, making just 15 to 32 cents an hour.
rhapsodic 8y ago
>But as someone not born in the US (although I live here) What is your native country?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
stergios 8y ago
Nonsense. The SOB who shot and killed my twin brother 31 years ago in the back of his head with a shotgun three times at point-blank range can rot in prison until he dies as far as I am concerned. Compassion like yours is for the lucky.
- ggg9990 8y ago
  Exactly. I’m convinced that this new “death penalty is so horrible” movement has kicked into high gear only because crime rates are low enough and society is segregated enough that many people don’t know any murder victims.
  - trhway 8y ago
    I'm in that movement because of extremely high rate of errors.
    - ggg9990 8y ago
      That's a reason I respect. The "compassion" angle is one that I don't.
  - simplemts 8y ago
    Look at other societies and ask yourself if your type of thinking that drives societal thinking may actually be part of the cause in creating these "monsters". Why are homicide rates so much lower elsewhere (say Europe)? What is it about American society that creates this?
- gambiting 8y ago
  >> until he dies as far as I am concerned Fortunately, the justice system is not concerned with how you feel about it either. It should assess prisoners purely on their current state and their current danger to society, not on how their victims feel 31 years later(and that should work both ways - someone shouldn't be kept in prison because their victim feels that way, but they also shouldn't be released early because their victim feels compassionate - justice should be blind to both of those).
ggm 8y ago
Britain probably has terminal cases in prison hospitals. Ian Brady, one of the "moors murderers" and the Kray twins come to mind. Both had people outside pleading their case to be released to die in family. I think Brady died in a secure hospital. So.. The UK is an OECD country. I think this does happen, albiet at a lower intensity than in the USA
- ggg9990 8y ago
  Man, if the UK offered compassionate release to the Kray twins it has gone full bizarro.
  - ggm 8y ago
    They didn't offer. People on the outside pled. It wasn't judged in the public interest AFAIK
    - stevekemp 8y ago
      Although compare that to the release of the Lockerbie bomber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_of_Abdelbaset_al-Megrahi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_of_Abdelbaset_al-Megra... Calling that controversial decision would be an understatement.
      - ggg9990 8y ago
        Unbelievable
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  The big difference is what Brady did to end up incarcerated, I doubt the inmates in the article committed such horrific crimes.
dominotw 8y ago
What does attitudes towards old ppl have to do with oced status
ggg9990 8y ago
Not everyone in prison is a violent criminal, but danger or no danger I strongly oppose “compassionate release” for any murderer or other severely violent criminal. I don’t see a reason to offer compassion to those who perpetrated malice on innocent victims.
- simplemts 8y ago
  Why not? Do you think if you were born in their position, to their family, in their circumstances, you would be any different? Are you unable to understand the responsibility of NOT the individual and everyone else (parents, peers, society, racism, etc.) in creating the "monster" you deem unfit for being treated, dare I say as a human, and compassionately?
  - gadders 8y ago
    >>Why not? Do you think if you were born in their position, to their family, in their circumstances, you would be any different? Conversely, does everyone in those circumstances grow up to be a violent offender?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - SamReidHughes 8y ago
    Actually it's more genetic than the environment.
  - AllegedAlec 8y ago
    > Do you think if you were born in their position, to their family, in their circumstances, you would be any different? Yes. No matter what your background is, doing horrible things to others is still a choice.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Fnoord 8y ago
> But as someone not born in the US (although I live here), the existence of a prison hospice with any great number of patients strikes me as an act of unspeakable cruelty. That's just the tip of the iceberg. What strikes me as an act of unspeakable cruelty is that people who have been in prison (felon) are no longer allowed to vote, and get the ability to work but below any kind of minimum wage. As soon as we start to treat people as non-human we enter a slippery slope (see Stanford prison experiment). The only exception I am willing to make to that is people who are insane. But those end up in involuntary commitment. And even those 2 examples I mentioned are also just the tip of the iceberg. There's so much wrong with our prison system (especially in USA). I did enjoy the series Orange Is The New Black because it highlighted some examples.
- subjectsigma 8y ago
  I don't understand this opinion. If someone commits a crime, they have broken the social contract and they should no longer enjoy the benefits it provides, including voting. Unless you're saying they should be able to vote a certain number of years after leaving prison, which could be reasonable.
  - Fnoord 8y ago
    As soon as they're out of prison they're once more a full civilian. Which is not what's happening. Why do those punishments on top of serving jail time or community service exist? Don't you think rehabilitation means that a person fully integrates within society, including the benefits that provides?
    - subjectsigma 8y ago
      > As soon as they're out of prison they're once more a full civilian. Which is not what's happening. Why do those punishments on top of serving jail time or community service exist? I'll be honest, I don't know enough about the topic to really answer this. Some quick Googling suggest that this is what happens, though. According to this page, [0] many states restore your voting rights automatically after your sentence is completed, and some very liberal ones even allow for voting in prison (which in my opinion is really stupid). > Don't you think rehabilitation means that a person fully integrates within society, including the benefits that provides? I don't think that rehabilitation happens instantly, so it makes sense that voting rights be restored after a period of years. Felons need to prove that they can live in the real world again before they can vote to change it. 0: https://www.nonprofitvote.org/voting-in-your-state/special-circumstances/voting-as-an-ex-offender/ https://www.nonprofitvote.org/voting-in-your-state/special-c...

Spooky23 8y ago

This is probably more compassionate. On the outside, they’d be admitted to a hospital ER for some acute condition, then funneled to a county run nursing home or one in the hospitals’ network that needed bodies badly enough to accept a Medicaid patient. If the patient were male, that might be far away from family as no facility wants to be stuck with a male Medicaid patient. If the patient were older, they would do a little better as the initial Medicare reimbursements are higher.

Archio 8y ago
>no facility wants to be stuck with a male Medicaid patient I'm curious, can you elaborate as to why that is?
- joncrane 8y ago
  It seemed highly likely to me because Medicaid's reimbursement rates are very low.
  - LeifCarrotson 8y ago
    I understand that Medicaid rates are low, but why the male/female distinction?
    - bilbo0s 8y ago
      In all fairness, when it comes to end-stage palliative care, there is no male/female distinction with respect to the bottom line. They both hit it pretty hard assuming they qualify.
    - Spooky23 8y ago
      There are a lot more older women than men, and a higher likelihood of getting stuck with a single occupied bed as you cannot bunk male/female. Nursing homes are an awful, evil business.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
mirimir 8y ago
Agreed. No hospice could afford 24/7 care. Because prisoners are ~free labor. > It’s one of the lowest paid jobs available, making just 15 to 32 cents an hour.

rhapsodic 8y ago

>But as someone not born in the US (although I live here) What is your native country?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

stergios 8y ago

Nonsense. The SOB who shot and killed my twin brother 31 years ago in the back of his head with a shotgun three times at point-blank range can rot in prison until he dies as far as I am concerned. Compassion like yours is for the lucky.

ggg9990 8y ago
Exactly. I’m convinced that this new “death penalty is so horrible” movement has kicked into high gear only because crime rates are low enough and society is segregated enough that many people don’t know any murder victims.
- trhway 8y ago
  I'm in that movement because of extremely high rate of errors.
  - ggg9990 8y ago
    That's a reason I respect. The "compassion" angle is one that I don't.
- simplemts 8y ago
  Look at other societies and ask yourself if your type of thinking that drives societal thinking may actually be part of the cause in creating these "monsters". Why are homicide rates so much lower elsewhere (say Europe)? What is it about American society that creates this?
gambiting 8y ago
>> until he dies as far as I am concerned Fortunately, the justice system is not concerned with how you feel about it either. It should assess prisoners purely on their current state and their current danger to society, not on how their victims feel 31 years later(and that should work both ways - someone shouldn't be kept in prison because their victim feels that way, but they also shouldn't be released early because their victim feels compassionate - justice should be blind to both of those).

ggm 8y ago

Britain probably has terminal cases in prison hospitals. Ian Brady, one of the "moors murderers" and the Kray twins come to mind. Both had people outside pleading their case to be released to die in family. I think Brady died in a secure hospital. So.. The UK is an OECD country. I think this does happen, albiet at a lower intensity than in the USA

ggg9990 8y ago
Man, if the UK offered compassionate release to the Kray twins it has gone full bizarro.
- ggm 8y ago
  They didn't offer. People on the outside pled. It wasn't judged in the public interest AFAIK
  - stevekemp 8y ago
    Although compare that to the release of the Lockerbie bomber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_of_Abdelbaset_al-Megrahi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_of_Abdelbaset_al-Megra... Calling that controversial decision would be an understatement.
    - ggg9990 8y ago
      Unbelievable
tonyedgecombe 8y ago
The big difference is what Brady did to end up incarcerated, I doubt the inmates in the article committed such horrific crimes.

dominotw 8y ago

What does attitudes towards old ppl have to do with oced status

ggg9990 8y ago

Not everyone in prison is a violent criminal, but danger or no danger I strongly oppose “compassionate release” for any murderer or other severely violent criminal. I don’t see a reason to offer compassion to those who perpetrated malice on innocent victims.

simplemts 8y ago
Why not? Do you think if you were born in their position, to their family, in their circumstances, you would be any different? Are you unable to understand the responsibility of NOT the individual and everyone else (parents, peers, society, racism, etc.) in creating the "monster" you deem unfit for being treated, dare I say as a human, and compassionately?
- gadders 8y ago
  >>Why not? Do you think if you were born in their position, to their family, in their circumstances, you would be any different? Conversely, does everyone in those circumstances grow up to be a violent offender?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  Actually it's more genetic than the environment.
- AllegedAlec 8y ago
  > Do you think if you were born in their position, to their family, in their circumstances, you would be any different? Yes. No matter what your background is, doing horrible things to others is still a choice.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Fnoord 8y ago

> But as someone not born in the US (although I live here), the existence of a prison hospice with any great number of patients strikes me as an act of unspeakable cruelty. That's just the tip of the iceberg. What strikes me as an act of unspeakable cruelty is that people who have been in prison (felon) are no longer allowed to vote, and get the ability to work but below any kind of minimum wage. As soon as we start to treat people as non-human we enter a slippery slope (see Stanford prison experiment). The only exception I am willing to make to that is people who are insane. But those end up in involuntary commitment. And even those 2 examples I mentioned are also just the tip of the iceberg. There's so much wrong with our prison system (especially in USA). I did enjoy the series Orange Is The New Black because it highlighted some examples.

subjectsigma 8y ago
I don't understand this opinion. If someone commits a crime, they have broken the social contract and they should no longer enjoy the benefits it provides, including voting. Unless you're saying they should be able to vote a certain number of years after leaving prison, which could be reasonable.
- Fnoord 8y ago
  As soon as they're out of prison they're once more a full civilian. Which is not what's happening. Why do those punishments on top of serving jail time or community service exist? Don't you think rehabilitation means that a person fully integrates within society, including the benefits that provides?
  - subjectsigma 8y ago
    > As soon as they're out of prison they're once more a full civilian. Which is not what's happening. Why do those punishments on top of serving jail time or community service exist? I'll be honest, I don't know enough about the topic to really answer this. Some quick Googling suggest that this is what happens, though. According to this page, [0] many states restore your voting rights automatically after your sentence is completed, and some very liberal ones even allow for voting in prison (which in my opinion is really stupid). > Don't you think rehabilitation means that a person fully integrates within society, including the benefits that provides? I don't think that rehabilitation happens instantly, so it makes sense that voting rights be restored after a period of years. Felons need to prove that they can live in the real world again before they can vote to change it. 0: https://www.nonprofitvote.org/voting-in-your-state/special-circumstances/voting-as-an-ex-offender/ https://www.nonprofitvote.org/voting-in-your-state/special-c...