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"That sounds horrible on the surface, but is it really that degrading?" YES. "Astronauts do it too." Astronauts are in an entirely different environment, whe

"That sounds horrible on the surface, but is it really that degrading?" YES. "Astronauts do it too." Astronauts are in an entirely different environment, where they have nothing but a thin suit separating them from the lifeless vacuum of space. Not at all comparable to delivering packages. "It's not like they are cleaning out sewers in Mumbai." "Someone else has it worse" is never a justification or an argument.

scruple 8y ago
> "That sounds horrible on the surface, but is it really that degrading?" > > YES. You piss in bottles on the job because the job demands it (never explicitly, of course). When you're poor, working poor, a manual laborer, etc... The power dynamics at these levels are so grossly disproportionate that you don't have a seat in the room, let alone at the table. You have to piss outside of your break times? Deal with it. Oh, you didn't get a break? Sorry, here's your last pay check, don't come back here tomorrow. That may be the extreme end of it, mostly experienced in the construction business (where I really saw the worst of it), but it wasn't far from the truth when I worked in warehouses loading trucks or in a glass plant, either. And, maybe it's a vastly different experience in a not-at-will state, maybe it's changed dramatically since the early 2000s, I wouldn't know but I really doubt it. This pissing in bottles thing is just part and parcel for manual laborers and, speaking from personal experience, I never once found it degrading. In the 8 or so years that I spent working manual labor full-time I'm not aware of any of my co-workers who did, either.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  Absolutely everything in your post sounds horrible. There is absolutely no justification for it, none. There is zero reason whatsoever that employers cannot allow people breaks.
  - scruple 8y ago
    > There is zero reason whatsoever that employers cannot allow people breaks. I agree with you here, completely, but it's the world some people live in. And, I don't think telling people that the behavior they are forced to engage in frequently, as a result of the bankrupt power structures they have to operate in, is degrading, is going to help them at all. > everything in your post sounds horrible. To you, and i'm sure to many others, as well, maybe even most. That doesn't mean it translates to the folks who live these lives. > There is absolutely no justification for it, none. Other than objective reality, sure.

scruple 8y ago

> "That sounds horrible on the surface, but is it really that degrading?" > > YES. You piss in bottles on the job because the job demands it (never explicitly, of course). When you're poor, working poor, a manual laborer, etc... The power dynamics at these levels are so grossly disproportionate that you don't have a seat in the room, let alone at the table. You have to piss outside of your break times? Deal with it. Oh, you didn't get a break? Sorry, here's your last pay check, don't come back here tomorrow. That may be the extreme end of it, mostly experienced in the construction business (where I really saw the worst of it), but it wasn't far from the truth when I worked in warehouses loading trucks or in a glass plant, either. And, maybe it's a vastly different experience in a not-at-will state, maybe it's changed dramatically since the early 2000s, I wouldn't know but I really doubt it. This pissing in bottles thing is just part and parcel for manual laborers and, speaking from personal experience, I never once found it degrading. In the 8 or so years that I spent working manual labor full-time I'm not aware of any of my co-workers who did, either.

s73v3r_ 8y ago
Absolutely everything in your post sounds horrible. There is absolutely no justification for it, none. There is zero reason whatsoever that employers cannot allow people breaks.
- scruple 8y ago
  > There is zero reason whatsoever that employers cannot allow people breaks. I agree with you here, completely, but it's the world some people live in. And, I don't think telling people that the behavior they are forced to engage in frequently, as a result of the bankrupt power structures they have to operate in, is degrading, is going to help them at all. > everything in your post sounds horrible. To you, and i'm sure to many others, as well, maybe even most. That doesn't mean it translates to the folks who live these lives. > There is absolutely no justification for it, none. Other than objective reality, sure.