20 ms·

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm still early in my career so it helps to hear this.

by sizzle 8y ago

scarface74 8y ago
That gives me an excuse to give another piece of advice.... In the grand scheme of things, there are three things I think developers should look for. 1. Technology - always look for companies that will give you a marketable skillset. It's worth sacrificing some amount of free time, a not so great environment, and money temporarily. The money will come. Leave a company if you're not learning (of course vesting in stock options, etc. may change the decision) 2. Environment - if you can find a better environment (for you) and still can use marketable technology, why stick around? Wrong environment could be long work hours, a far commute, a small vs larger company (depending on preference). 3. Money. Life is too short not to make as much money as you can doing what you enjoy.
- kelnos 8y ago
  This is excellent advice, and I just wanted to add one thing: under "environment", I would also include "people". I want to be working with smart, driven, friendly, respectful people. YMMV on those specific people traits that you value, but to me who I work with is one of the most important things on the list for job satisfaction. Good people help you learn along the way, and you can pay if back by mentoring other good people. They will also remember you (and you can remember them) down the road when you've moved on to new companies and someone needs a new job.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Definitely. At the job where I was the "architect", I felt lost. I could only learn technical things from reading. I was hired to be the "smartest person in the room" but that meant I couldn't learn. But I did learn a lot more about leadership, being responsible for a project budget, interviewing, hiring, technical decision from a strategic viewpoint etc.
  - mdip 8y ago
    This - yes. The reason I love my current job and loved my last one was that I was surrounded by people who knew things that I didn't, who came into work excited to work and who were generally just awesome people. The key here is to not get complacent. You need to carry that same attitude and approach to work that you enjoy so much out of the people you work with. Luckily, for me, I worked in a very low moral environment for quite a while and outside of my closest friend and coworker, and less than about 7 other people, we had to be the uplifting folks. When I started working at the job that followed the one I stayed at way too long, and people were excited to work on projects, didn't complain before meetings started, and generally didn't have a negative thing to say about the company, the customers or their coworkers, I was in shock for a bit. I didn't believe a place like this actually existed. I'm now moved on from that place at another place with the exact same kind of people. It's amazing how different things are when you are surrounded by people like that versus when you're surrounded by people who are demoralized full-time. I'm a pretty strong optimist and don't require much in the way of external motivation -- (4 kids, single-income family -- a paycheck is the only motivation I need), but it sure is easier to stay motivated when everyone around you is having fun, too.
- mdip 8y ago
  Excellent points and thanks for your two posts; they were both enjoyable reads. I'd like to add a little bit on each, as well. 1. Technology - Also make sure the place you're applying to is willing to give you the tools you require to do your job well. A company that's willing to pay your (very likely) high salary, but then won't drop $2,000 - $1,000/yr on software tools/hardware that make you more efficient is probably an indication that things aren't great over there. 2. Environment - Your job is not your family. Despite the new-speak, you're not on a team with a bunch of team-mates. You are bought and paid for and the person who paid for you expects to get a return for their purchase. If the environment is bad, leaving is the right thing to do[0] for both yourself and your employer. If you stay in a bad environment, you're miserable and you can't provide your best work where you're not happy. Your employer is better off having someone else do your job and you're better off finding some other place to offer your work. And if it's not just a "bad fit", but is actually a "truly awful environment", sticking around simply re-enforces your employer's mindset that everything's fine. 3. Money - I have a feeling you may take some heat for that statement but I completely agree. You'll hear plenty of people complain about other people having too much money but you'll (almost) never hear people complain about having too much money, themselves -- even at, what today, you might consider "absurd salaries". This advice applies somewhat uniquely to our industry where there almost certainly is an opening out there at a company that both pays well and is the specific work that you love to do[1]. I kick myself for turning down four different job offers over the years and chose, instead, to work too long at my first, serious, job. I let "fear of the unknown" convince me that there's too high of a probability that I'd like my next job less than my current job (and I convinced myself that this actually mattered). [0] Though I would suggest, first, having a direct conversation about things that aren't working for you. It's not easy to do but I've found it to have positive results. And if it doesn't, it'll help reaffirm that you need to do the right thing and get out. [1] My ex-wife once looked over at the code on my screen while we were sitting in bed watching television and said "Is this what you do all day?". I smiled, excited that she was taking an interest in the work that I was doing and wanted to know more about it. I said "Sure is" (beaming a little too much). She paused, and in a serious voice that, to this day, I will never forget said "I'd kill myself if I had to do what you do."
  - scarface74 8y ago

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm still early in my career so it helps to hear this.

by sizzle 8y ago

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm still early in my career so it helps to hear this.

That gives me an excuse to give another piece of advice.... In the grand scheme of things, there are three things I think developers should look for. 1. Technology - always look for companies that will give you a marketable skillset. It's worth sacrificing some amount of free time, a not so great environment, and money temporarily. The money will come. Leave a company if you're not learning (of course vesting in stock options, etc. may change the decision) 2. Environment - if you can find a better environment (for you) and still can use marketable technology, why stick around? Wrong environment could be long work hours, a far commute, a small vs larger company (depending on preference). 3. Money. Life is too short not to make as much money as you can doing what you enjoy.

kelnos 8y ago
This is excellent advice, and I just wanted to add one thing: under "environment", I would also include "people". I want to be working with smart, driven, friendly, respectful people. YMMV on those specific people traits that you value, but to me who I work with is one of the most important things on the list for job satisfaction. Good people help you learn along the way, and you can pay if back by mentoring other good people. They will also remember you (and you can remember them) down the road when you've moved on to new companies and someone needs a new job.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Definitely. At the job where I was the "architect", I felt lost. I could only learn technical things from reading. I was hired to be the "smartest person in the room" but that meant I couldn't learn. But I did learn a lot more about leadership, being responsible for a project budget, interviewing, hiring, technical decision from a strategic viewpoint etc.
- mdip 8y ago
  This - yes. The reason I love my current job and loved my last one was that I was surrounded by people who knew things that I didn't, who came into work excited to work and who were generally just awesome people. The key here is to not get complacent. You need to carry that same attitude and approach to work that you enjoy so much out of the people you work with. Luckily, for me, I worked in a very low moral environment for quite a while and outside of my closest friend and coworker, and less than about 7 other people, we had to be the uplifting folks. When I started working at the job that followed the one I stayed at way too long, and people were excited to work on projects, didn't complain before meetings started, and generally didn't have a negative thing to say about the company, the customers or their coworkers, I was in shock for a bit. I didn't believe a place like this actually existed. I'm now moved on from that place at another place with the exact same kind of people. It's amazing how different things are when you are surrounded by people like that versus when you're surrounded by people who are demoralized full-time. I'm a pretty strong optimist and don't require much in the way of external motivation -- (4 kids, single-income family -- a paycheck is the only motivation I need), but it sure is easier to stay motivated when everyone around you is having fun, too.
mdip 8y ago
Excellent points and thanks for your two posts; they were both enjoyable reads. I'd like to add a little bit on each, as well. 1. Technology - Also make sure the place you're applying to is willing to give you the tools you require to do your job well. A company that's willing to pay your (very likely) high salary, but then won't drop $2,000 - $1,000/yr on software tools/hardware that make you more efficient is probably an indication that things aren't great over there. 2. Environment - Your job is not your family. Despite the new-speak, you're not on a team with a bunch of team-mates. You are bought and paid for and the person who paid for you expects to get a return for their purchase. If the environment is bad, leaving is the right thing to do[0] for both yourself and your employer. If you stay in a bad environment, you're miserable and you can't provide your best work where you're not happy. Your employer is better off having someone else do your job and you're better off finding some other place to offer your work. And if it's not just a "bad fit", but is actually a "truly awful environment", sticking around simply re-enforces your employer's mindset that everything's fine. 3. Money - I have a feeling you may take some heat for that statement but I completely agree. You'll hear plenty of people complain about other people having too much money but you'll (almost) never hear people complain about having too much money, themselves -- even at, what today, you might consider "absurd salaries". This advice applies somewhat uniquely to our industry where there almost certainly is an opening out there at a company that both pays well and is the specific work that you love to do[1]. I kick myself for turning down four different job offers over the years and chose, instead, to work too long at my first, serious, job. I let "fear of the unknown" convince me that there's too high of a probability that I'd like my next job less than my current job (and I convinced myself that this actually mattered). [0] Though I would suggest, first, having a direct conversation about things that aren't working for you. It's not easy to do but I've found it to have positive results. And if it doesn't, it'll help reaffirm that you need to do the right thing and get out. [1] My ex-wife once looked over at the code on my screen while we were sitting in bed watching television and said "Is this what you do all day?". I smiled, excited that she was taking an interest in the work that I was doing and wanted to know more about it. I said "Sure is" (beaming a little too much). She paused, and in a serious voice that, to this day, I will never forget said "I'd kill myself if I had to do what you do."
- scarface74 8y ago