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I have yet to see a union that would support management firing an underperforming employee, but have seen many that would protect underperformers. I've also ne

I have yet to see a union that would support management firing an underperforming employee, but have seen many that would protect underperformers. I've also never heard of a union that supported performance pay, because by the law of average most of their members will be under average, and they wouldn't want to irritate them.

conanbatt 8y ago
Any union worth a damn should always fight any performance based pay because it goes contrary to their interests.
- legostormtroopr 8y ago
  Except they don't.
bsder 8y ago
> I have yet to see a union that would support management firing an underperforming employee, but have seen many that would protect underperformers. Much like a defense attorney a union must defend everyone--even the crappy ones. Because most of the time, the employee really isn't that crappy and simply annoyed management by doing something silly like--oh, demanding the safety equipment necessary to do a task and told management to pound sand when they didn't provide it. Yeah, seen that one in person. It is up to management to make the case that the shitty employee actually is so. And, if they can't, well the employee really isn't that bad then. For example, everybody bitches about the crappy teachers, but I have seen numerous cases where the school superintendent never even tries to make the case because that would affect his ability to get his next job. Why does nobody ever complain about the superintendent not doing HIS job and putting together the case to fire the teacher? > I've also never heard of a union that supported performance pay Not true. However, the union almost always demands that the performance criteria be objective or that the union gets to determine who falls into which categories. Funnily, management never seems to want to agree to "performance pay" that they can't hand out arbitrarily.
patmcc 8y ago
>>I have yet to see a union that would support management firing an underperforming employee, but have seen many that would protect underperformers. What unions almost always do is require management to follow the procedures in place in the negotiated contract. A well negotiated contract lays out what underperforming is, what qualifies as appropriate notice, etc. People find it hard to say "your performance is not great in these ways, you need to improve in these ways" and then follow up over weeks or months. That's often what union negotiated contracts require. Employers, obviously, would prefer to be able to say on a Friday "hey you're fired go home" and pay no severance.
Avshalom 8y ago
I have yet to see a company without "underperforming" employees that have been around for ages and payed more than "over performing" new hire despite having never worked in a union shop.
hpcjoe 8y ago
In grad school, I taught recitation and lab sections of physics courses. Some of my students were local school district teachers. Two of them I remember. These two, in different years, had one thing in common. Both were functionally illiterate. Neither one could read at the level one would need to in order to take the non-calculus version of physics. Math was simply beyond them. I asked my advising professor what I should do about this, as it was obvious that the right thing to do was to report this, get the person some help, and get them out of the classroom. I was told to drop it. That the teachers union was simply too powerful, and would protect their own. That if I made noise, it would hurt the university, this program, etc. That I should find a way to pass them. Yeah. That.
Frondo 8y ago
Screen Actors Guild. now you've seen one with performance pay...can you change your tune the next time around on the next union-related thread?

conanbatt 8y ago

Any union worth a damn should always fight any performance based pay because it goes contrary to their interests.

legostormtroopr 8y ago
Except they don't.

bsder 8y ago

> I have yet to see a union that would support management firing an underperforming employee, but have seen many that would protect underperformers. Much like a defense attorney a union must defend everyone--even the crappy ones. Because most of the time, the employee really isn't that crappy and simply annoyed management by doing something silly like--oh, demanding the safety equipment necessary to do a task and told management to pound sand when they didn't provide it. Yeah, seen that one in person. It is up to management to make the case that the shitty employee actually is so. And, if they can't, well the employee really isn't that bad then. For example, everybody bitches about the crappy teachers, but I have seen numerous cases where the school superintendent never even tries to make the case because that would affect his ability to get his next job. Why does nobody ever complain about the superintendent not doing HIS job and putting together the case to fire the teacher? > I've also never heard of a union that supported performance pay Not true. However, the union almost always demands that the performance criteria be objective or that the union gets to determine who falls into which categories. Funnily, management never seems to want to agree to "performance pay" that they can't hand out arbitrarily.

patmcc 8y ago

>>I have yet to see a union that would support management firing an underperforming employee, but have seen many that would protect underperformers. What unions almost always do is require management to follow the procedures in place in the negotiated contract. A well negotiated contract lays out what underperforming is, what qualifies as appropriate notice, etc. People find it hard to say "your performance is not great in these ways, you need to improve in these ways" and then follow up over weeks or months. That's often what union negotiated contracts require. Employers, obviously, would prefer to be able to say on a Friday "hey you're fired go home" and pay no severance.

Avshalom 8y ago

I have yet to see a company without "underperforming" employees that have been around for ages and payed more than "over performing" new hire despite having never worked in a union shop.

hpcjoe 8y ago

In grad school, I taught recitation and lab sections of physics courses. Some of my students were local school district teachers. Two of them I remember. These two, in different years, had one thing in common. Both were functionally illiterate. Neither one could read at the level one would need to in order to take the non-calculus version of physics. Math was simply beyond them. I asked my advising professor what I should do about this, as it was obvious that the right thing to do was to report this, get the person some help, and get them out of the classroom. I was told to drop it. That the teachers union was simply too powerful, and would protect their own. That if I made noise, it would hurt the university, this program, etc. That I should find a way to pass them. Yeah. That.

Frondo 8y ago

Screen Actors Guild. now you've seen one with performance pay...can you change your tune the next time around on the next union-related thread?