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What is the basis if any of this, other than its repetition by a few? Is this really the proposed solution?: Do nothing while waiting for 'history' to 'trend'?

What is the basis if any of this, other than its repetition by a few? Is this really the proposed solution?: Do nothing while waiting for 'history' to 'trend'? Things don't happen because a magical force named "history" is "trending"; they happen because people do things. In the U.S., desegregation, voting rights, women's rights, and much more happened as a result of decades of strategic, concentrated efforts by groups of people. People gave their lives and worked their entire careers for those things; many died without seeing much progress. The parent is an excuse to do nothing. And doing nothing is consigning millions to suffering every day. How many African-Americans lived and died under the brutality of slavery and segregation waiting for "history" to do something? What good does it do them that eventually it 'trended'? There are African-American children filling underfunded schools now, and even if they overcome the odds they are facing daunting college costs; what will you offer them? 'Trends'? For their grandchildren?

manigandham 8y ago
Nobody is saying do nothing. That's the point, things are changing for the better, and it's because of treating people as individuals rather than members of a group. The fact is that life is unfair, both natural and societal. The best we can do is ensure equal opportunity as much as possible so anyone from any place and background can get a shot at achieving the life they want. This is fundamentally only possible if we stop putting people into arbitrary buckets based on some attribute (physical or otherwise), and instead only look at them as the 1 in 7+ billion unique character they are. The only way forward is to stop group-based identity politics completely, and then and only then, will we as society transcend this tribalistic trap we're caught within.
- forapurpose 8y ago
  > The only way forward is to stop group-based identity politics completely I agree, that would be ideal. How do you propose to accomplish it? And failing that, which you almost certainly will in any conceivable timeframe, what is plan B? Plan B is the problem we need to solve. > things are changing for the better Maybe, but the project is a complete failure unless success is measured in centuries. It's 2018 and discrimination against anyone who isn't white-skinned, male, and in narrower circles, Christian, is still overwhelming. White guys make up 33% of the U.S. population but absolutely dominate business, politics, tech -- as you look around TV, the news, etc., remember that an even distribution would be 1/3 white guys and observe how incredibly skewed it is. So what do you say to someone of another gender, race, or ethnicity, who wants a career, a life? 'Things are changing for the better! Your great-grandchildren will have more opportunity!'? Be aware that's stereotypical language of privilege - when it's not your problem, it's easy to say, 'wait'. We need to act, now.
  - manigandham 8y ago
    This will be my last reply because you're stuck in an idealogical bubble and I hope you can break out of it someday. You're stating that you agree in stopping identity politics but you're also stating that it's impossible to achieve, and under that assumption you will always fail to achieve it. It's possible to accomplish as I already said, by simple forgetting everything about group identity. That's it. Treat people like individuals and nothing else. The tiny minority that will still make a big deal about it will wither away slowly and have insignificant effect on anyone else. But as your last 2 paragraphs show, you're unable to do that and still keep looking through a group lens. There is not really much discrimination at all, but it will always seem like it as long as you use arbitrary groupings, like saying "white guys" when that could cover people from half the countries on the planet. There is no such thing as an "even" distribution because you made an random group based on something uncontrollable like skin color, and then decided that the world should match without even pausing to consider that there are millions of factors that make up the individual, and that localized family and societal cultures make a large impact on what someone will choose to do with their life. Stop thinking in groups (especially on any physical characteristic). The only way forward is to treat everyone like the unique character they are, with their entire life as their background with their own unique interests, talents, and motivations. That's the answer to both your questions. If you want to act and change for the better, just do that.
weberc2 8y ago
Presumably the "magical force" is revolting against identity politics of all kinds. The more our society has embraced the idea that individuals shouldn't be judged on the basis of superficial attributes, the better it has become. So it would seem the "solution" is to continue the course that appears to be working--that is, to oppose racism and prejudice; not to double-down on it.

manigandham 8y ago

Nobody is saying do nothing. That's the point, things are changing for the better, and it's because of treating people as individuals rather than members of a group. The fact is that life is unfair, both natural and societal. The best we can do is ensure equal opportunity as much as possible so anyone from any place and background can get a shot at achieving the life they want. This is fundamentally only possible if we stop putting people into arbitrary buckets based on some attribute (physical or otherwise), and instead only look at them as the 1 in 7+ billion unique character they are. The only way forward is to stop group-based identity politics completely, and then and only then, will we as society transcend this tribalistic trap we're caught within.

forapurpose 8y ago
> The only way forward is to stop group-based identity politics completely I agree, that would be ideal. How do you propose to accomplish it? And failing that, which you almost certainly will in any conceivable timeframe, what is plan B? Plan B is the problem we need to solve. > things are changing for the better Maybe, but the project is a complete failure unless success is measured in centuries. It's 2018 and discrimination against anyone who isn't white-skinned, male, and in narrower circles, Christian, is still overwhelming. White guys make up 33% of the U.S. population but absolutely dominate business, politics, tech -- as you look around TV, the news, etc., remember that an even distribution would be 1/3 white guys and observe how incredibly skewed it is. So what do you say to someone of another gender, race, or ethnicity, who wants a career, a life? 'Things are changing for the better! Your great-grandchildren will have more opportunity!'? Be aware that's stereotypical language of privilege - when it's not your problem, it's easy to say, 'wait'. We need to act, now.
- manigandham 8y ago
  This will be my last reply because you're stuck in an idealogical bubble and I hope you can break out of it someday. You're stating that you agree in stopping identity politics but you're also stating that it's impossible to achieve, and under that assumption you will always fail to achieve it. It's possible to accomplish as I already said, by simple forgetting everything about group identity. That's it. Treat people like individuals and nothing else. The tiny minority that will still make a big deal about it will wither away slowly and have insignificant effect on anyone else. But as your last 2 paragraphs show, you're unable to do that and still keep looking through a group lens. There is not really much discrimination at all, but it will always seem like it as long as you use arbitrary groupings, like saying "white guys" when that could cover people from half the countries on the planet. There is no such thing as an "even" distribution because you made an random group based on something uncontrollable like skin color, and then decided that the world should match without even pausing to consider that there are millions of factors that make up the individual, and that localized family and societal cultures make a large impact on what someone will choose to do with their life. Stop thinking in groups (especially on any physical characteristic). The only way forward is to treat everyone like the unique character they are, with their entire life as their background with their own unique interests, talents, and motivations. That's the answer to both your questions. If you want to act and change for the better, just do that.

weberc2 8y ago

Presumably the "magical force" is revolting against identity politics of all kinds. The more our society has embraced the idea that individuals shouldn't be judged on the basis of superficial attributes, the better it has become. So it would seem the "solution" is to continue the course that appears to be working--that is, to oppose racism and prejudice; not to double-down on it.