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I'm curious why this comment was down-voted. Is the assertion false? Have there been reports of UPS drivers doing this?

ddppee 8y ago
It's downvoted because the users of hackernews have an irrational hatred for unions, so anything that justifies having/forming a union is downvoted
- craftyguy 8y ago
  No, I think it's downvoted because it's a made up story. It's easy to make up stories on the internet that invoke the feels, much harder to verify that they are true. Stop trying to make this about "unions vs no unions." Edit: No proof has been supplied this happened to an actual UPS employee, nor has there been any official statement by the union that this is actually something that has happened. Therefore, this is fake news until proven otherwise.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    There's literally a comment on this thread where someone states that this actually happened. And a similar story, though involving bushes. Ergo, not made up.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - lallysingh 8y ago
    If you don't believe the commentators here, why are you part of this community?
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      Because not all comments here are people making up stories / sharing anecdotes, and it's relatively easy for me to ignore them. I was merely answering GP's question about why it was being downvoted.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  You must be browsing a different HN than I am. On my HN, there's a lot of support for unions, including voices advocating for software developers to unionize while we're still in position of power over employers.
  - prolikewhoa 8y ago
    I don't see that at all. It's very right wing economically and anti-labor. I'm guessing most of HN is Engineers making loads of money who don't have to think about struggling in any sense when it's a reality that 78% of people in USA are living paycheck to paycheck. Edit: I even see the HN anti-union comment flagged because again, HN is anti-union and anti-labor.
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
      Again, we must be living in alternate universes, which somehow collided and started mixing in this HN thread. The HN in my universe has plenty of pro-labor and left-wing comments as well. Or maybe it's a timezone thing? I'm in Europe, I tend to browse HN during our days and evenings. Maybe the threads visited by most Americans show up as I go to sleep, and disappear from the front page before I wake up?
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    Ehhh, I still see lots of irrational hatred for unions. There is starting to be more support for labor, but this is still primarily a startup forum, so capital is still idolized.
- kinsomo 8y ago
  > It's downvoted because the users of hackernews have an irrational hatred for unions, so anything that justifies having/forming a union is downvoted Of course, unions are a barrier to "disruption" and there's a lot of anti-union propaganda floating around, a lot based on selective examples of unions' worst behavior. Personally, I think unions should be stronger, but maybe we need to experiment different models for unionization and employee organization.
matte_black 8y ago
It’s downvoted because it’s a classic story that always seems to come up whenever these kind of union articles appear. Want to emphasize how bad workers have it? Just tell people they’re pissing in bottles! The reality is no, workers aren’t pissing in bottles. At least not on a regular basis anyway, and not because they were forced. If they were, it means they’ve been drinking tons of water. But how would they have time to drink so much water if they supposedly don’t even have time to take a bathroom break? Awareness of your own bodily functions is just a part of life. One that people take for granted, until it puts them in a difficult situation. There was once a time on my way to work I got stuck in a bad traffic jam and had to shit really bad. Eventually, there was a point where I realized I wasn’t going to make it and started rummaging through the backseat for any kind of bag.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  It's a classic story for UPS drivers because it's true, though it's actually more of a problem for FedEx drivers than UPS drivers. And of course they're not pissing in bottles every day. The problem is that they don't have the time to take a rest break due to the unrealistic volumes of deliveries each driver is expected to make regardless of traffic, weather, or other conditions.
  - awat 8y ago
    Exactly, the bottles are a clear and understandable symptom (literal, figurative, or somewhere inbetween) not the sickness they are trying to highlight.
- kevinh 8y ago
  > But how would they have time to drink so much water if they supposedly don’t even have time to take a bathroom break? You can drink water and drive at the same time.
- TheCapn 8y ago
  >But how would they have time to drink so much water if they supposedly don’t even have time to take a bathroom break? What? Those are two distinct and not comparable things. Besides, being a driver can be pretty hefty labour and you'd be stupid not to be drinking lots of water while you work.
SilasX 8y ago
I downvoted because it's generally not productive to make context-light comments of the form, "There exists one grievance that one side has." It just encourages the outrage culture and further unproductive comments.

It's downvoted because the users of hackernews have an irrational hatred for unions, so anything that justifies having/forming a union is downvoted

craftyguy 8y ago
No, I think it's downvoted because it's a made up story. It's easy to make up stories on the internet that invoke the feels, much harder to verify that they are true. Stop trying to make this about "unions vs no unions." Edit: No proof has been supplied this happened to an actual UPS employee, nor has there been any official statement by the union that this is actually something that has happened. Therefore, this is fake news until proven otherwise.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  There's literally a comment on this thread where someone states that this actually happened. And a similar story, though involving bushes. Ergo, not made up.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- lallysingh 8y ago
  If you don't believe the commentators here, why are you part of this community?
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    Because not all comments here are people making up stories / sharing anecdotes, and it's relatively easy for me to ignore them. I was merely answering GP's question about why it was being downvoted.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
You must be browsing a different HN than I am. On my HN, there's a lot of support for unions, including voices advocating for software developers to unionize while we're still in position of power over employers.
- prolikewhoa 8y ago
  I don't see that at all. It's very right wing economically and anti-labor. I'm guessing most of HN is Engineers making loads of money who don't have to think about struggling in any sense when it's a reality that 78% of people in USA are living paycheck to paycheck. Edit: I even see the HN anti-union comment flagged because again, HN is anti-union and anti-labor.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Again, we must be living in alternate universes, which somehow collided and started mixing in this HN thread. The HN in my universe has plenty of pro-labor and left-wing comments as well. Or maybe it's a timezone thing? I'm in Europe, I tend to browse HN during our days and evenings. Maybe the threads visited by most Americans show up as I go to sleep, and disappear from the front page before I wake up?
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  Ehhh, I still see lots of irrational hatred for unions. There is starting to be more support for labor, but this is still primarily a startup forum, so capital is still idolized.
kinsomo 8y ago
> It's downvoted because the users of hackernews have an irrational hatred for unions, so anything that justifies having/forming a union is downvoted Of course, unions are a barrier to "disruption" and there's a lot of anti-union propaganda floating around, a lot based on selective examples of unions' worst behavior. Personally, I think unions should be stronger, but maybe we need to experiment different models for unionization and employee organization.

matte_black 8y ago

It’s downvoted because it’s a classic story that always seems to come up whenever these kind of union articles appear. Want to emphasize how bad workers have it? Just tell people they’re pissing in bottles! The reality is no, workers aren’t pissing in bottles. At least not on a regular basis anyway, and not because they were forced. If they were, it means they’ve been drinking tons of water. But how would they have time to drink so much water if they supposedly don’t even have time to take a bathroom break? Awareness of your own bodily functions is just a part of life. One that people take for granted, until it puts them in a difficult situation. There was once a time on my way to work I got stuck in a bad traffic jam and had to shit really bad. Eventually, there was a point where I realized I wasn’t going to make it and started rummaging through the backseat for any kind of bag.

gamblor956 8y ago
It's a classic story for UPS drivers because it's true, though it's actually more of a problem for FedEx drivers than UPS drivers. And of course they're not pissing in bottles every day. The problem is that they don't have the time to take a rest break due to the unrealistic volumes of deliveries each driver is expected to make regardless of traffic, weather, or other conditions.
- awat 8y ago
  Exactly, the bottles are a clear and understandable symptom (literal, figurative, or somewhere inbetween) not the sickness they are trying to highlight.
kevinh 8y ago
> But how would they have time to drink so much water if they supposedly don’t even have time to take a bathroom break? You can drink water and drive at the same time.
TheCapn 8y ago
>But how would they have time to drink so much water if they supposedly don’t even have time to take a bathroom break? What? Those are two distinct and not comparable things. Besides, being a driver can be pretty hefty labour and you'd be stupid not to be drinking lots of water while you work.

SilasX 8y ago

I downvoted because it's generally not productive to make context-light comments of the form, "There exists one grievance that one side has." It just encourages the outrage culture and further unproductive comments.