4 ms·

> I try to hire the same type of person. It is a profile increasingly hard to find. Anyone with your profile should run their own business. It's unrealistic to

by bitL 8y ago

> I try to hire the same type of person. It is a profile increasingly hard to find. Anyone with your profile should run their own business. It's unrealistic to expect somebody to work long hours, over-deliver for "maybe someday"-promises. People aren't as idealistic as they used to be because they were taken advantage of and learned from it.

6cd6beb 8y ago
Anecdotal but I feel like I'm that kind of person but absolutely don't want to run a business. The worst case scenario of my own business is the whole thing crashing and me having to reorganize my life to accommodate whatever job I can find before my emergency fund runs out. The worst case scenario for being an employee is getting fired. Pretty much the same outcome but much, much harder to hit. If I want to start a family or just have a stable enough career to (essentially) never worry about going broke, I'll take the latter. That personality profile just makes keeping a job as simple as hitting the bare minimum requirements (which you habitually blaze past).
kyriakos 8y ago
Not everyone has the skills to run their own business. Some people prefer to be part of a team and not at the top of the pyramid. They get satisfaction by contributing.
- bitL 8y ago
  It's in their best interest to acquire those skills, or keep being taken advantage of. A binary choice - that's the world we are living in right now.
  - skj 8y ago
    > or keep being taken advantage of Presumably they're getting paid for their work.
    - bitL 8y ago
      OK, you get paid but you have to slow down, play politics, form your/join a clique, because otherwise you become hated by all your colleagues for casting a shadow on them, then be driven slowly out of the company by hiding information from you and spreading rumors about you. In other words, you are wasting the most precious thing you have - time, where you could perform much much better, for some "standard salary". Is that a good bargain?
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - chc 8y ago
      That doesn't really make any difference. Literal indentured servants got paid for their work.
      - s73v3r_ 8y ago
        Right. But someone who's starting their own business has to spend all their time on that business, and is spending most of their income on that business. I have free time to devote to other things I find more rewarding.
    - john_moscow 8y ago
      Yes and no. Although you are getting your paycheck, it's extremely demotivating be the only person in a team who gives a damn about getting things done. It gets more demotivating with passive aggression from your coworkers that are afraid that your performance raises the bar for everyone. It gets even more demotivating to see others promoted behind your back because they were going to the bar with the boss while you were figuring out how to deliver that critical thing to the customers. I have personally been in those shoes and had to learn the business skills the hard way. And I don't think I had any other choice aside from giving up and becoming just another employee who doesn't care.
      - kyriakos 8y ago
  - sametmax 8y ago
    This assumes there is now way to find a company that fairly reward the effort you make, at least according to what you are content with.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    Uh, no. I have no desire to start my own business, mainly because I value my off work time.
    - bitL 8y ago
      Automated business can give you way more off work time than you can imagine... I used to work 5 minutes/day running automated e-commerce.
- AFNobody 8y ago
  > Not everyone has the skills to run their own business. Some people prefer to be part of a team and not at the top of the pyramid. They get satisfaction by contributing. Working 60+ hour weeks for a paycheck that can get gotten elsewhere provides no one with satisfaction. Anyone who rides programmers that hard will find the programmer firing his manager. Almost none of the people that push you to do that are worth working for. Even a startup that provides RSUS. If you want what the OP wants in an employee, you need to pay a minimum of a 30% premium over what they can get elsewhere.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  I'd say that, in the professional world, most want to be part of a team because they want to trade the upside potential for stability and shorter, more predictable hours and a smaller, more defined scope of responsibility. You can't expect "change the world" passion from these people when they've traded that away as part of the bargain.
  - osrec 8y ago
    I think a lot of people prefer to be part of a team as it helps spread the responsibility (and more importantly, blame) around. I've worked a few "high powered" corporate jobs, and most so-called team-players at that level are really just team-blamers, yet conniving enough to single-handedly take credit for anything good that happens, while still appearing humble. It's pretty much why I quit and started my own firm. I like having the responsibility on my shoulders and enjoy putting my neck on the line. When I get something wrong, I'm only answerable to me (rather than be reprimanded by some know-it-all boss), and I can pick myself up quickly, reaim and try again. It's a less stressful experience with better results. For my staff, we discuss things, but I will never ever talk down to them or reprimand them like kids. If I do, I bet they'll just leave as soon as they can, as I did.
throwaway5752 8y ago
"People aren't as idealistic as they used to be because they were taken advantage of and learned from it." Those of us that are trying to build high-performing organizations will still avoid and remove those types of people. And we will continue to reward and not take advantage of our people to fill our end of the bargain. Further, those of us that are also highly self-motivated will continue to leave bad situations, not become slackers in response to being taken advantage of.
- bitL 8y ago
  I don't think slackers are the problem. But the unappreciated high performers. The moment somebody gets a whiff you didn't reward one of your employees for their work is the time your organization starts its decline (people talk). Frankly, I don't think you can avoid it as nobody can be really objective and tunnel vision is real. I just take it as a "nature's" way to move forward - blindspots of one company become strengths of another one, and due to past history, people would really compete against each other because of past perceived wrongdoings.
mathgladiator 8y ago
That's incorrect, he is expressing what he is able to manage. Will this limit him? Or not? That is the question.

by bitL 8y ago

6cd6beb 8y ago

Anecdotal but I feel like I'm that kind of person but absolutely don't want to run a business. The worst case scenario of my own business is the whole thing crashing and me having to reorganize my life to accommodate whatever job I can find before my emergency fund runs out. The worst case scenario for being an employee is getting fired. Pretty much the same outcome but much, much harder to hit. If I want to start a family or just have a stable enough career to (essentially) never worry about going broke, I'll take the latter. That personality profile just makes keeping a job as simple as hitting the bare minimum requirements (which you habitually blaze past).

kyriakos 8y ago

Not everyone has the skills to run their own business. Some people prefer to be part of a team and not at the top of the pyramid. They get satisfaction by contributing.

bitL 8y ago
It's in their best interest to acquire those skills, or keep being taken advantage of. A binary choice - that's the world we are living in right now.
- skj 8y ago
  > or keep being taken advantage of Presumably they're getting paid for their work.
  - bitL 8y ago
    OK, you get paid but you have to slow down, play politics, form your/join a clique, because otherwise you become hated by all your colleagues for casting a shadow on them, then be driven slowly out of the company by hiding information from you and spreading rumors about you. In other words, you are wasting the most precious thing you have - time, where you could perform much much better, for some "standard salary". Is that a good bargain?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - chc 8y ago
    That doesn't really make any difference. Literal indentured servants got paid for their work.
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      Right. But someone who's starting their own business has to spend all their time on that business, and is spending most of their income on that business. I have free time to devote to other things I find more rewarding.
  - john_moscow 8y ago
    Yes and no. Although you are getting your paycheck, it's extremely demotivating be the only person in a team who gives a damn about getting things done. It gets more demotivating with passive aggression from your coworkers that are afraid that your performance raises the bar for everyone. It gets even more demotivating to see others promoted behind your back because they were going to the bar with the boss while you were figuring out how to deliver that critical thing to the customers. I have personally been in those shoes and had to learn the business skills the hard way. And I don't think I had any other choice aside from giving up and becoming just another employee who doesn't care.
    - kyriakos 8y ago
- sametmax 8y ago
  This assumes there is now way to find a company that fairly reward the effort you make, at least according to what you are content with.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  Uh, no. I have no desire to start my own business, mainly because I value my off work time.
  - bitL 8y ago
    Automated business can give you way more off work time than you can imagine... I used to work 5 minutes/day running automated e-commerce.
AFNobody 8y ago
> Not everyone has the skills to run their own business. Some people prefer to be part of a team and not at the top of the pyramid. They get satisfaction by contributing. Working 60+ hour weeks for a paycheck that can get gotten elsewhere provides no one with satisfaction. Anyone who rides programmers that hard will find the programmer firing his manager. Almost none of the people that push you to do that are worth working for. Even a startup that provides RSUS. If you want what the OP wants in an employee, you need to pay a minimum of a 30% premium over what they can get elsewhere.
emodendroket 8y ago
I'd say that, in the professional world, most want to be part of a team because they want to trade the upside potential for stability and shorter, more predictable hours and a smaller, more defined scope of responsibility. You can't expect "change the world" passion from these people when they've traded that away as part of the bargain.
- osrec 8y ago
  I think a lot of people prefer to be part of a team as it helps spread the responsibility (and more importantly, blame) around. I've worked a few "high powered" corporate jobs, and most so-called team-players at that level are really just team-blamers, yet conniving enough to single-handedly take credit for anything good that happens, while still appearing humble. It's pretty much why I quit and started my own firm. I like having the responsibility on my shoulders and enjoy putting my neck on the line. When I get something wrong, I'm only answerable to me (rather than be reprimanded by some know-it-all boss), and I can pick myself up quickly, reaim and try again. It's a less stressful experience with better results. For my staff, we discuss things, but I will never ever talk down to them or reprimand them like kids. If I do, I bet they'll just leave as soon as they can, as I did.

throwaway5752 8y ago

"People aren't as idealistic as they used to be because they were taken advantage of and learned from it." Those of us that are trying to build high-performing organizations will still avoid and remove those types of people. And we will continue to reward and not take advantage of our people to fill our end of the bargain. Further, those of us that are also highly self-motivated will continue to leave bad situations, not become slackers in response to being taken advantage of.

bitL 8y ago
I don't think slackers are the problem. But the unappreciated high performers. The moment somebody gets a whiff you didn't reward one of your employees for their work is the time your organization starts its decline (people talk). Frankly, I don't think you can avoid it as nobody can be really objective and tunnel vision is real. I just take it as a "nature's" way to move forward - blindspots of one company become strengths of another one, and due to past history, people would really compete against each other because of past perceived wrongdoings.

mathgladiator 8y ago

That's incorrect, he is expressing what he is able to manage. Will this limit him? Or not? That is the question.