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The problem with these sorts of systems, both those backed by technology and those backed by old-fashioned prejudice, is that it exerts an upward force on those

by jfasi 8y ago

The problem with these sorts of systems, both those backed by technology and those backed by old-fashioned prejudice, is that it exerts an upward force on those who are already on top while simultaneously pushing downwards on those who are on the bottom. Each of the examples listed here have this effect: having a high credit score means you get cheaper healthcare, have more opportunities to find a well-off partner, don't need to pay deposits on car rentals, get to travel, etc. It seems as though if you're on top, you're going to stay there, meanwhile if you're on the bottom, you're going to stay there also. What I'd like to know, as an American sitting literally a world away from the people under this system, is to what extent wealth and influence purchase a high social credit score? Some factors are obvious: those with more money are less likely to incur debts, for instance. But what about connections to administrators? I imagine there isn't a politician in all of China who doesn't magically have a sterling social credit score. I wonder whether the net result is a society in which a high standing resulting from material and social wealth leads to perks that in turn lead to more material and social wealth.

Simulacra 8y ago
The same way, for instance, Chinese wealth has purchased high social rewards in America; university placement for their children, investments, politics, etc. Wealth and influence seem to ahhh trump all, so to speak.
fspeech 8y ago
Let me give you a counter example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jia_Yueting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jia_Yueting He is on the travel ban list due to credit problems in China, yet apparently rich and free in the U.S. The first released travel ban list has 169 names on it: https://www.creditchina.gov.cn/toutiaoxinwen/201806/t20180601_117051.html https://www.creditchina.gov.cn/toutiaoxinwen/201806/t2018060... (according to Google Translate) "On June 1, the first list of restricted-riding trains was publicized on the “Credit China” website. The list of public opinions contained a total of 169 persons, of which 21 were provided by the State Administration of Taxation, mainly involving non-payment or underpayment of tax payables, illegal receipts of value-added tax invoices, etc.; the CSRC provided 31 persons involved in overdue performance of securities and futures Responsible parties related to listed companies failed to fulfill their public commitments within the overdue period; the Civil Aviation Administration provided 86 people, mainly related to finding trouble in airplanes, blocking traffic in airport security, occupying, impinging on security inspection channels, and assaulting other people, and checking out carry-on countries in airport security inspections. Laws and regulations stipulate that dangerous goods (stuck lighters) are subject to administrative penalties; the railway company provides 31 people, mainly involving smoking on EMU trains or smoking in non-smoking areas of other trains, without ticket or station ) Travel by car and refusing to make up for tickets etc. The public can click https://hmd.creditchina.gov.cn/ https://hmd.creditchina.gov.cn/ to view."
pishpash 8y ago
> I wonder whether the net result is a society in which a high standing resulting from material and social wealth leads to perks that in turn lead to more material and social wealth. Why do you have to wonder and why do you need to look to China to learn this? This is how America worked and works, way before China got to it. I know it's hard to introspect and all, but I'm glad having a China that looks more like America (than before) is making Americans finally see our own country more clearly.

by jfasi 8y ago

Simulacra 8y ago

The same way, for instance, Chinese wealth has purchased high social rewards in America; university placement for their children, investments, politics, etc. Wealth and influence seem to ahhh trump all, so to speak.

fspeech 8y ago

Let me give you a counter example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jia_Yueting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jia_Yueting He is on the travel ban list due to credit problems in China, yet apparently rich and free in the U.S. The first released travel ban list has 169 names on it: https://www.creditchina.gov.cn/toutiaoxinwen/201806/t20180601_117051.html https://www.creditchina.gov.cn/toutiaoxinwen/201806/t2018060... (according to Google Translate) "On June 1, the first list of restricted-riding trains was publicized on the “Credit China” website. The list of public opinions contained a total of 169 persons, of which 21 were provided by the State Administration of Taxation, mainly involving non-payment or underpayment of tax payables, illegal receipts of value-added tax invoices, etc.; the CSRC provided 31 persons involved in overdue performance of securities and futures Responsible parties related to listed companies failed to fulfill their public commitments within the overdue period; the Civil Aviation Administration provided 86 people, mainly related to finding trouble in airplanes, blocking traffic in airport security, occupying, impinging on security inspection channels, and assaulting other people, and checking out carry-on countries in airport security inspections. Laws and regulations stipulate that dangerous goods (stuck lighters) are subject to administrative penalties; the railway company provides 31 people, mainly involving smoking on EMU trains or smoking in non-smoking areas of other trains, without ticket or station ) Travel by car and refusing to make up for tickets etc. The public can click https://hmd.creditchina.gov.cn/ https://hmd.creditchina.gov.cn/ to view."

pishpash 8y ago

> I wonder whether the net result is a society in which a high standing resulting from material and social wealth leads to perks that in turn lead to more material and social wealth. Why do you have to wonder and why do you need to look to China to learn this? This is how America worked and works, way before China got to it. I know it's hard to introspect and all, but I'm glad having a China that looks more like America (than before) is making Americans finally see our own country more clearly.