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What in God's name are you talking about ? USSR saw a massive famine in 1932-1933 [1] believed to be caused directly by communist policies [1] https://en.m.wik

What in God's name are you talking about ? USSR saw a massive famine in 1932-1933 [1] believed to be caused directly by communist policies [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932–33 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932–33

watwut 8y ago
He talks about later stages of communism. There was no famine in 1970 or 1980.
myth_drannon 8y ago
That's controversial who caused what, the wikipedia link actually discusses it. It's like saying the Wall Street bankers caused the famine in USA in 30's. Too much propaganda and subversion on this topic.
- simula67 8y ago
  The discussion points to Soviet policy. You are invoking fallacy of the gray [1] with your comparison to the dust bowl [1] https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Fallacy_of_gray https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Fallacy_of_gray
- adamsea 8y ago
  There does not appear to be much data supporting the hypothesis that a significant number of people died of malnutrition (ie a famine) in the US during the Great Depression: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12297/how-many-people-in-the-us-starved-to-death-during-the-great-depression https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12297/how-many-p... The millions of deaths (irrespective of the famines ultimate cause) in the USSR and especially in the Ukraine in 1932 / 1933 are well documented (2-4 million deaths estimated): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%... There was also a Russian famine in 1922 where an estimated 5 million people died: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9322 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80... There is a Wikipedia article on “hunger in the United States”, but a google search for “United States Great Depression famine” did not return any Wikipedia articles documenting a famine in the US at that time, only the above Stack Exchange discussion (which appears to reject the hypothesis). FYI: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States Without data to back up the claim of a famine killing millions in the US during the Great Depression the comparison used here is nonsense, although there may be other evidence for the point the author was attempting to support.
  - myth_drannon 8y ago
    We are discussing economic systems. What is the point of listing selective list of famines at certain times of Russian history to the discussion about communism vs capitalism. Much worse famines occurred when the Russia was capitalistic. Famines occurred in any type of economic system. Are you implying that communist Russia was more susceptible to food shocks?

watwut 8y ago

He talks about later stages of communism. There was no famine in 1970 or 1980.

myth_drannon 8y ago

That's controversial who caused what, the wikipedia link actually discusses it. It's like saying the Wall Street bankers caused the famine in USA in 30's. Too much propaganda and subversion on this topic.

simula67 8y ago
The discussion points to Soviet policy. You are invoking fallacy of the gray [1] with your comparison to the dust bowl [1] https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Fallacy_of_gray https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Fallacy_of_gray
adamsea 8y ago
There does not appear to be much data supporting the hypothesis that a significant number of people died of malnutrition (ie a famine) in the US during the Great Depression: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12297/how-many-people-in-the-us-starved-to-death-during-the-great-depression https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12297/how-many-p... The millions of deaths (irrespective of the famines ultimate cause) in the USSR and especially in the Ukraine in 1932 / 1933 are well documented (2-4 million deaths estimated): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%... There was also a Russian famine in 1922 where an estimated 5 million people died: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9322 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80... There is a Wikipedia article on “hunger in the United States”, but a google search for “United States Great Depression famine” did not return any Wikipedia articles documenting a famine in the US at that time, only the above Stack Exchange discussion (which appears to reject the hypothesis). FYI: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States Without data to back up the claim of a famine killing millions in the US during the Great Depression the comparison used here is nonsense, although there may be other evidence for the point the author was attempting to support.
- myth_drannon 8y ago
  We are discussing economic systems. What is the point of listing selective list of famines at certain times of Russian history to the discussion about communism vs capitalism. Much worse famines occurred when the Russia was capitalistic. Famines occurred in any type of economic system. Are you implying that communist Russia was more susceptible to food shocks?