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That's more to do with a better food distribution network. The fact that you ate mostly locally grown food and not imported from far away places didn't make you

That's more to do with a better food distribution network. The fact that you ate mostly locally grown food and not imported from far away places didn't make you poor. You had to really try to be poor and hungry in USSR. The collapse of communism and diminished threat of proletariat revolution in western countries is what driving the inequality in the past 30 years ("the rich are getting bolder").

simula67 8y ago
What in God's name are you talking about ? USSR saw a massive famine in 1932-1933 [1] believed to be caused directly by communist policies [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932–33 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932–33
- watwut 8y ago
  He talks about later stages of communism. There was no famine in 1970 or 1980.
- myth_drannon 8y ago
  That's controversial who caused what, the wikipedia link actually discusses it. It's like saying the Wall Street bankers caused the famine in USA in 30's. Too much propaganda and subversion on this topic.
  - simula67 8y ago
    The discussion points to Soviet policy. You are invoking fallacy of the gray [1] with your comparison to the dust bowl [1] https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Fallacy_of_gray https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Fallacy_of_gray
  - adamsea 8y ago
    There does not appear to be much data supporting the hypothesis that a significant number of people died of malnutrition (ie a famine) in the US during the Great Depression: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12297/how-many-people-in-the-us-starved-to-death-during-the-great-depression https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12297/how-many-p... The millions of deaths (irrespective of the famines ultimate cause) in the USSR and especially in the Ukraine in 1932 / 1933 are well documented (2-4 million deaths estimated): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%... There was also a Russian famine in 1922 where an estimated 5 million people died: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9322 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80... There is a Wikipedia article on “hunger in the United States”, but a google search for “United States Great Depression famine” did not return any Wikipedia articles documenting a famine in the US at that time, only the above Stack Exchange discussion (which appears to reject the hypothesis). FYI: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States Without data to back up the claim of a famine killing millions in the US during the Great Depression the comparison used here is nonsense, although there may be other evidence for the point the author was attempting to support.
    - myth_drannon 8y ago
      We are discussing economic systems. What is the point of listing selective list of famines at certain times of Russian history to the discussion about communism vs capitalism. Much worse famines occurred when the Russia was capitalistic. Famines occurred in any type of economic system. Are you implying that communist Russia was more susceptible to food shocks?
Mediterraneo10 8y ago
> The fact that you ate mostly locally grown food and not imported from far away places didn't make you poor. The "locally grown food" in many cases was little more besides white flour and mincemeat. (A situation that still exists in parts of rural Russia.) The only tea that could be drunk was usually a single variety of black tea. I think "poverty" is a reasonable adjective for that state of affairs. The fact that people in urban Russia today do have access to a vastly wider choice of food is a significant advance.
- myth_drannon 8y ago
  Nope, that's called a richer diet. Also having an option to buy 50 different varieties of black tea doesn't make someone better off. In the end you are going to drink a tea. I'm not whitewashing history which is quite bleak in that region but too many things are distorted by propaganda. It's all subjective but Russians today are not better than they were 50 years ago despite having the ability to buy iPhones, drive BMWs and eat sushi...
  - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
    > Nope, that's called a richer diet. It is amusing that use the term "richer" to dispute my claim above that Russians are less poor.

simula67 8y ago

What in God's name are you talking about ? USSR saw a massive famine in 1932-1933 [1] believed to be caused directly by communist policies [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932–33 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932–33

watwut 8y ago
He talks about later stages of communism. There was no famine in 1970 or 1980.
myth_drannon 8y ago
That's controversial who caused what, the wikipedia link actually discusses it. It's like saying the Wall Street bankers caused the famine in USA in 30's. Too much propaganda and subversion on this topic.
- simula67 8y ago
  The discussion points to Soviet policy. You are invoking fallacy of the gray [1] with your comparison to the dust bowl [1] https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Fallacy_of_gray https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Fallacy_of_gray
- adamsea 8y ago
  There does not appear to be much data supporting the hypothesis that a significant number of people died of malnutrition (ie a famine) in the US during the Great Depression: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12297/how-many-people-in-the-us-starved-to-death-during-the-great-depression https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12297/how-many-p... The millions of deaths (irrespective of the famines ultimate cause) in the USSR and especially in the Ukraine in 1932 / 1933 are well documented (2-4 million deaths estimated): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%... There was also a Russian famine in 1922 where an estimated 5 million people died: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9322 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80... There is a Wikipedia article on “hunger in the United States”, but a google search for “United States Great Depression famine” did not return any Wikipedia articles documenting a famine in the US at that time, only the above Stack Exchange discussion (which appears to reject the hypothesis). FYI: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States Without data to back up the claim of a famine killing millions in the US during the Great Depression the comparison used here is nonsense, although there may be other evidence for the point the author was attempting to support.
  - myth_drannon 8y ago
    We are discussing economic systems. What is the point of listing selective list of famines at certain times of Russian history to the discussion about communism vs capitalism. Much worse famines occurred when the Russia was capitalistic. Famines occurred in any type of economic system. Are you implying that communist Russia was more susceptible to food shocks?

Mediterraneo10 8y ago

> The fact that you ate mostly locally grown food and not imported from far away places didn't make you poor. The "locally grown food" in many cases was little more besides white flour and mincemeat. (A situation that still exists in parts of rural Russia.) The only tea that could be drunk was usually a single variety of black tea. I think "poverty" is a reasonable adjective for that state of affairs. The fact that people in urban Russia today do have access to a vastly wider choice of food is a significant advance.

myth_drannon 8y ago
Nope, that's called a richer diet. Also having an option to buy 50 different varieties of black tea doesn't make someone better off. In the end you are going to drink a tea. I'm not whitewashing history which is quite bleak in that region but too many things are distorted by propaganda. It's all subjective but Russians today are not better than they were 50 years ago despite having the ability to buy iPhones, drive BMWs and eat sushi...
- Mediterraneo10 8y ago
  > Nope, that's called a richer diet. It is amusing that use the term "richer" to dispute my claim above that Russians are less poor.