5 ms·

What about the amount of time you own for yourself? Purchasing power is cool, but necessary goods (food, housing) prices* are raising much faster than wages. Y

by 131012 8y ago

What about the amount of time you own for yourself? Purchasing power is cool, but necessary goods (food, housing) prices* are raising much faster than wages. Yes, you can buy a new fablet and yet another pair of jeans for cheaper than ever, but what for exactly? * Please do your own research as these facts are highly location-dependent.

paulpauper 8y ago
Regarding necessities such as healthcare and education, yes, sticker costs are rising faster than inflation and wages, but one must also take into account that: Individuals seldom pay the stick price. A $10k/month drug does not mean one pays $10k/month out of his or her own pocket. Same for a $1,000 emergency room visit. Or college tuition, due to generous financial aid and payment deferment programs (some universities have huge discounts for low and middle-class students). So one must adjust prices for what one actually pays, not the MSRP. Second, although people are spending a lot on healthcare, they are getting more healthcare and better healthcare, which is the key distinction. This means cutting-edge treatments for diseases that decades ago would have been fatal (a notable example is CML, which used to be fatal within 3-6 years of diagnosis but can now be managed as a chronic condition like diabetes). Healthcare would be very cheap if drugs were limited to Advil and Aspirin, but also very bad. People would be irate if those were their only options. Not saying the system is perfect or that drugs are not overpriced, but one must take into account quality and quantity than just the price. Rent, however, is an example of a cost that has exceeded inflation, but where there is no notable improvement in quality, and there are no payment deferment programs. People are paying more and more for the same 2-bedroom apartment. I suspect part of the problem is due to the difficulty of evincing deadbeat renters and due to regulation, so landlords pass the costs to renters both in the form of high rents and huge, upfront, multi-month down-payments. But also, the housing bust in 2008 created a construction shortage, so people who lost their homes in 2005-2010 found themselves with no option but to rent, and this created more demand, but also due to less housing constitution. Housing starts plunged in 2008 and never really recovered: https://www.census.gov/construction/img/c20_curr.gif https://www.census.gov/construction/img/c20_curr.gif
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  I spent $9k out of pocket (hospital stay and doctors) for my son’s birth in April after insurance. My friend paid 5£ in the UK. No, I am not getting substantially better care for what was paid. It has been proven fact that we (Americans) pay more than every other developed country for healthcare with poorer outcomes. It’s a racket, plain and simple. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/03/u-s-pays-more-for-health-care-with-worse-population-health-outcomes/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/03/u-s-pays-more...
  - paulpauper 8y ago
    this figure puts it at only $3,500 http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/07/01/having_a_baby_in_the_u_s_costs_a_lot_of_money_especially_if_you_actually.html?via=gdpr-consent http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/07/01/having_a_bab... Women with insurance pay out of pocket an average of $3,400, according to a survey by Childbirth Connection, one of the groups behind the maternity costs report. Two decades ago, women typically paid nothing other than a small fee if they opted for a private hospital room or television. But one must take into account the risk of complications; if something were to go really wrong, would you rather be in the US hospital or the UK one? I suspect the NHS is more affordable, but does not handle complications and individual patient cases as well as the US system.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      I’d rather be in the UK one. I refuse to be held hostage by the medical industrial complex. The hospital charges my wife for her stay, my newborn son for his “stay”, her OB charged for the procedure, and the neonatologist charged. Whatever isn’t paid by insurance automatically becomes our responsibility, with no recourse to dispute. We are actively working to leave this country.
      - CalRobert 8y ago
        Where are you headed? Wife and I left and have been delighted; happy to chat if you like.
bzbarsky 8y ago
You're right that these facts are highly location-dependent, but can you please cite your claim that food prices are rising faster than wages somewhere? I am rather doubtful. Housing is an entirely different matter.

by 131012 8y ago

paulpauper 8y ago

Regarding necessities such as healthcare and education, yes, sticker costs are rising faster than inflation and wages, but one must also take into account that: Individuals seldom pay the stick price. A $10k/month drug does not mean one pays $10k/month out of his or her own pocket. Same for a $1,000 emergency room visit. Or college tuition, due to generous financial aid and payment deferment programs (some universities have huge discounts for low and middle-class students). So one must adjust prices for what one actually pays, not the MSRP. Second, although people are spending a lot on healthcare, they are getting more healthcare and better healthcare, which is the key distinction. This means cutting-edge treatments for diseases that decades ago would have been fatal (a notable example is CML, which used to be fatal within 3-6 years of diagnosis but can now be managed as a chronic condition like diabetes). Healthcare would be very cheap if drugs were limited to Advil and Aspirin, but also very bad. People would be irate if those were their only options. Not saying the system is perfect or that drugs are not overpriced, but one must take into account quality and quantity than just the price. Rent, however, is an example of a cost that has exceeded inflation, but where there is no notable improvement in quality, and there are no payment deferment programs. People are paying more and more for the same 2-bedroom apartment. I suspect part of the problem is due to the difficulty of evincing deadbeat renters and due to regulation, so landlords pass the costs to renters both in the form of high rents and huge, upfront, multi-month down-payments. But also, the housing bust in 2008 created a construction shortage, so people who lost their homes in 2005-2010 found themselves with no option but to rent, and this created more demand, but also due to less housing constitution. Housing starts plunged in 2008 and never really recovered: https://www.census.gov/construction/img/c20_curr.gif https://www.census.gov/construction/img/c20_curr.gif

toomuchtodo 8y ago
I spent $9k out of pocket (hospital stay and doctors) for my son’s birth in April after insurance. My friend paid 5£ in the UK. No, I am not getting substantially better care for what was paid. It has been proven fact that we (Americans) pay more than every other developed country for healthcare with poorer outcomes. It’s a racket, plain and simple. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/03/u-s-pays-more-for-health-care-with-worse-population-health-outcomes/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/03/u-s-pays-more...
- paulpauper 8y ago
  this figure puts it at only $3,500 http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/07/01/having_a_baby_in_the_u_s_costs_a_lot_of_money_especially_if_you_actually.html?via=gdpr-consent http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/07/01/having_a_bab... Women with insurance pay out of pocket an average of $3,400, according to a survey by Childbirth Connection, one of the groups behind the maternity costs report. Two decades ago, women typically paid nothing other than a small fee if they opted for a private hospital room or television. But one must take into account the risk of complications; if something were to go really wrong, would you rather be in the US hospital or the UK one? I suspect the NHS is more affordable, but does not handle complications and individual patient cases as well as the US system.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    I’d rather be in the UK one. I refuse to be held hostage by the medical industrial complex. The hospital charges my wife for her stay, my newborn son for his “stay”, her OB charged for the procedure, and the neonatologist charged. Whatever isn’t paid by insurance automatically becomes our responsibility, with no recourse to dispute. We are actively working to leave this country.
    - CalRobert 8y ago
      Where are you headed? Wife and I left and have been delighted; happy to chat if you like.

bzbarsky 8y ago

You're right that these facts are highly location-dependent, but can you please cite your claim that food prices are rising faster than wages somewhere? I am rather doubtful. Housing is an entirely different matter.