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>This is a very uninformed statement. For 911 and/or police calls, there is an extensively well-established (to put it mildly) precedent that the safety of an a

>This is a very uninformed statement. For 911 and/or police calls, there is an extensively well-established (to put it mildly) precedent that the safety of an area must be secured by police before medical personnel are even allowed on scene. Here in the UK, the police would not routinely attend an ambulance call-out for someone experiencing suicidal thoughts unless there was specific intelligence to suggest that the patient might present a credible threat to an ambulance crew. Most British police officers are not permitted to carry firearms; armed officers would only be deployed to a mental health crisis if there was specific intelligence to suggest that the patient was armed and posed an immediate threat to life. All armed officers have specialist training, including crisis management and conflict de-escalation. In 2017, six people were fatally shot by police in England and Wales. Since 1990, the average number of fatal police shootings was 2.46 per year. Another way is possible. https://www.inquest.org.uk/deaths-in-police-custody https://www.inquest.org.uk/deaths-in-police-custody

oblio 8y ago
> Another way is possible. No, it's not. https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1820163660 https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-na...
lysp 8y ago
In Australia a large amount of police work is conducting welfare checks - suicide threats, people not showing up for work for a few days, distant family concerned about an elderly relative, health support workers who are concerned their mentally ill patient hasn't taken their medication, people who show erratic behaviour at a bank or government welfare office after talking to staff. Especially in country areas where they are limited Ambulance/Paramedic resources, police are more often than not the ones conducting checks and will be first responders. If paramedics are concerned about safety on a particular job (weapons mentioned on call, previous history of violence), they will wait for police to make the area safe before attending to a patient. If paramedics are unable to gain entry to a property, police are required to be the ones to force entry. Also if paramedics require to take someone involuntarily to hospital for mental health evaluation they require police presence to "arrest" someone under the Mental Health Act to allow them to be taken against their will due to health concerns. Due to large amounts of mental health work with police, on most shifts police will have a specialised unit (car) on duty in each area which has a combination of a police officer and specialist mental health worker / psychologist. They focus on any jobs relating to mentally ill and can conduct assessments without having to wait for an ambulance to be available. There are a lot more police on shift than ambulances, and ambulances are often tied up for hours at hospitals doing transfers of patients, so police can and should be the ones dealing with welfare of the general public. They have a very close relationship with health workers. Police will NEVER undertake a welfare check with guns drawn, even if forcing entry to a property. When arresting someone under the Mental Health Act police will not draw their guns. Guns are a last resort only.
DanBC 8y ago
> Here in the UK, the police would not routinely attend an ambulance call-out for someone experiencing suicidal thoughts unless there was specific intelligence This is incorrect. UK police routinely attend for people who are mentally ill because they've been called there by family or neighbours. Section 135 and 136 of the mental health act (and the equivalent in Scotland) are police powers to detain someone and take them to a place of safety. But this just strengthens your point: despite this routine use of police for people in mental distress we still manage to avoid killing many people, and when it happens we spend considerable effort to change procedures and policy to stop it happening again. (See the reduction in prone restraint for one example).

oblio 8y ago

> Another way is possible. No, it's not. https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1820163660 https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-na...

lysp 8y ago

In Australia a large amount of police work is conducting welfare checks - suicide threats, people not showing up for work for a few days, distant family concerned about an elderly relative, health support workers who are concerned their mentally ill patient hasn't taken their medication, people who show erratic behaviour at a bank or government welfare office after talking to staff. Especially in country areas where they are limited Ambulance/Paramedic resources, police are more often than not the ones conducting checks and will be first responders. If paramedics are concerned about safety on a particular job (weapons mentioned on call, previous history of violence), they will wait for police to make the area safe before attending to a patient. If paramedics are unable to gain entry to a property, police are required to be the ones to force entry. Also if paramedics require to take someone involuntarily to hospital for mental health evaluation they require police presence to "arrest" someone under the Mental Health Act to allow them to be taken against their will due to health concerns. Due to large amounts of mental health work with police, on most shifts police will have a specialised unit (car) on duty in each area which has a combination of a police officer and specialist mental health worker / psychologist. They focus on any jobs relating to mentally ill and can conduct assessments without having to wait for an ambulance to be available. There are a lot more police on shift than ambulances, and ambulances are often tied up for hours at hospitals doing transfers of patients, so police can and should be the ones dealing with welfare of the general public. They have a very close relationship with health workers. Police will NEVER undertake a welfare check with guns drawn, even if forcing entry to a property. When arresting someone under the Mental Health Act police will not draw their guns. Guns are a last resort only.

DanBC 8y ago

> Here in the UK, the police would not routinely attend an ambulance call-out for someone experiencing suicidal thoughts unless there was specific intelligence This is incorrect. UK police routinely attend for people who are mentally ill because they've been called there by family or neighbours. Section 135 and 136 of the mental health act (and the equivalent in Scotland) are police powers to detain someone and take them to a place of safety. But this just strengthens your point: despite this routine use of police for people in mental distress we still manage to avoid killing many people, and when it happens we spend considerable effort to change procedures and policy to stop it happening again. (See the reduction in prone restraint for one example).