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Diversity needs to be a visible attribute (the more visible the better), and as far away as possible from "white", "straight" and "men". (I'm sarcastic in case

Diversity needs to be a visible attribute (the more visible the better), and as far away as possible from "white", "straight" and "men". (I'm sarcastic in case this needs to be said). In an ideal world, diversity would be about diversity of thought more than visible diversity. But that doesn't seem to matter at all nowadays. To the contrary, if you don't agree with the dominant thoughts of the day you will be fired for "Cultural unfitness".

forapurpose 8y ago
> In an ideal world, diversity would be about diversity of thought more than visible diversity. ... I agree, that would be ideal. Unfortunately, the world in which we live and in which Google operates discriminates based on visible attributes. There's no real genetic basis to the idea of 'black'; consider that a child of a black and white parent considered 'black' because of a visible property, their skin color. Consider that people from a wide range of geographical locations and backgrounds are all lumped together as 'black' with nothing else in common but a visible attribute (and it's a poorly defined attribute, covering a wide range of hues). If we want a meritocracy and opportunity for all, and if we want to maximize talent in our workplaces, we need to counteract the discrimination that's actually happening and not act as if we are in another world.
- throwaway894345 8y ago
  > If we want a meritocracy and opportunity for all, and if we want to maximize talent in our workplaces, we need to counteract the discrimination that's actually happening and not act as if we are in another world. This is at odds with history. Our society has been trending toward equality since before the civil rights era, and the philosophy that drove the change was individualism--a _rejection_ of identity politics. It's the only philosophy that has ever effectively reduced racism. "Fighting racism with racism" has only ever triggered tribalistic reflexes which increase racism (hence the uptick in right-wing identity politics following the mainstreaming of left-wing identity politics). Racism in any form for any reason is deplorable, and it isn't an effective way to reduce anti-minority racism.
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    What is the basis if any of this, other than its repetition by a few? Is this really the proposed solution?: Do nothing while waiting for 'history' to 'trend'? Things don't happen because a magical force named "history" is "trending"; they happen because people do things. In the U.S., desegregation, voting rights, women's rights, and much more happened as a result of decades of strategic, concentrated efforts by groups of people. People gave their lives and worked their entire careers for those things; many died without seeing much progress. The parent is an excuse to do nothing. And doing nothing is consigning millions to suffering every day. How many African-Americans lived and died under the brutality of slavery and segregation waiting for "history" to do something? What good does it do them that eventually it 'trended'? There are African-American children filling underfunded schools now, and even if they overcome the odds they are facing daunting college costs; what will you offer them? 'Trends'? For their grandchildren?
    - manigandham 8y ago
      Nobody is saying do nothing. That's the point, things are changing for the better, and it's because of treating people as individuals rather than members of a group. The fact is that life is unfair, both natural and societal. The best we can do is ensure equal opportunity as much as possible so anyone from any place and background can get a shot at achieving the life they want. This is fundamentally only possible if we stop putting people into arbitrary buckets based on some attribute (physical or otherwise), and instead only look at them as the 1 in 7+ billion unique character they are. The only way forward is to stop group-based identity politics completely, and then and only then, will we as society transcend this tribalistic trap we're caught within.
      - forapurpose 8y ago
        > The only way forward is to stop group-based identity politics completely I agree, that would be ideal. How do you propose to accomplish it? And failing that, which you almost certainly will in any conceivable timeframe, what is plan B? Plan B is the problem we need to solve. > things are changing for the better Maybe, but the project is a complete failure unless success is measured in centuries. It's 2018 and discrimination against anyone who isn't white-skinned, male, and in narrower circles, Christian, is still overwhelming. White guys make up 33% of the U.S. population but absolutely dominate business, politics, tech -- as you look around TV, the news, etc., remember that an even distribution would be 1/3 white guys and observe how incredibly skewed it is. So what do you say to someone of another gender, race, or ethnicity, who wants a career, a life? 'Things are changing for the better! Your great-grandchildren will have more opportunity!'? Be aware that's stereotypical language of privilege - when it's not your problem, it's easy to say, 'wait'. We need to act, now.

forapurpose 8y ago

> In an ideal world, diversity would be about diversity of thought more than visible diversity. ... I agree, that would be ideal. Unfortunately, the world in which we live and in which Google operates discriminates based on visible attributes. There's no real genetic basis to the idea of 'black'; consider that a child of a black and white parent considered 'black' because of a visible property, their skin color. Consider that people from a wide range of geographical locations and backgrounds are all lumped together as 'black' with nothing else in common but a visible attribute (and it's a poorly defined attribute, covering a wide range of hues). If we want a meritocracy and opportunity for all, and if we want to maximize talent in our workplaces, we need to counteract the discrimination that's actually happening and not act as if we are in another world.

throwaway894345 8y ago
> If we want a meritocracy and opportunity for all, and if we want to maximize talent in our workplaces, we need to counteract the discrimination that's actually happening and not act as if we are in another world. This is at odds with history. Our society has been trending toward equality since before the civil rights era, and the philosophy that drove the change was individualism--a _rejection_ of identity politics. It's the only philosophy that has ever effectively reduced racism. "Fighting racism with racism" has only ever triggered tribalistic reflexes which increase racism (hence the uptick in right-wing identity politics following the mainstreaming of left-wing identity politics). Racism in any form for any reason is deplorable, and it isn't an effective way to reduce anti-minority racism.
- forapurpose 8y ago
  What is the basis if any of this, other than its repetition by a few? Is this really the proposed solution?: Do nothing while waiting for 'history' to 'trend'? Things don't happen because a magical force named "history" is "trending"; they happen because people do things. In the U.S., desegregation, voting rights, women's rights, and much more happened as a result of decades of strategic, concentrated efforts by groups of people. People gave their lives and worked their entire careers for those things; many died without seeing much progress. The parent is an excuse to do nothing. And doing nothing is consigning millions to suffering every day. How many African-Americans lived and died under the brutality of slavery and segregation waiting for "history" to do something? What good does it do them that eventually it 'trended'? There are African-American children filling underfunded schools now, and even if they overcome the odds they are facing daunting college costs; what will you offer them? 'Trends'? For their grandchildren?
  - manigandham 8y ago
    Nobody is saying do nothing. That's the point, things are changing for the better, and it's because of treating people as individuals rather than members of a group. The fact is that life is unfair, both natural and societal. The best we can do is ensure equal opportunity as much as possible so anyone from any place and background can get a shot at achieving the life they want. This is fundamentally only possible if we stop putting people into arbitrary buckets based on some attribute (physical or otherwise), and instead only look at them as the 1 in 7+ billion unique character they are. The only way forward is to stop group-based identity politics completely, and then and only then, will we as society transcend this tribalistic trap we're caught within.
    - forapurpose 8y ago
      > The only way forward is to stop group-based identity politics completely I agree, that would be ideal. How do you propose to accomplish it? And failing that, which you almost certainly will in any conceivable timeframe, what is plan B? Plan B is the problem we need to solve. > things are changing for the better Maybe, but the project is a complete failure unless success is measured in centuries. It's 2018 and discrimination against anyone who isn't white-skinned, male, and in narrower circles, Christian, is still overwhelming. White guys make up 33% of the U.S. population but absolutely dominate business, politics, tech -- as you look around TV, the news, etc., remember that an even distribution would be 1/3 white guys and observe how incredibly skewed it is. So what do you say to someone of another gender, race, or ethnicity, who wants a career, a life? 'Things are changing for the better! Your great-grandchildren will have more opportunity!'? Be aware that's stereotypical language of privilege - when it's not your problem, it's easy to say, 'wait'. We need to act, now.