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I don't feel the diversity should be sought for its own sake. The best applicant should be hired every single time - although I do feel that it is okay to consi

I don't feel the diversity should be sought for its own sake. The best applicant should be hired every single time - although I do feel that it is okay to consider diversity as a tie-breaker when choosing between equally qualified candidates. On the opposite side: people not hiring the best candidate, in order to prevent diversity, should be fired. Just hire the best person.

grigjd3 8y ago
It is really hard to measure why people are or aren't hired. Why do I have product managers that can't write a complete sentence or even use a consistent vocabulary? Were they the best choices? I don't think so, but there is a lot of factors that go into e decision.
kolpa 8y ago
Team projects are not individual activities; therefore candidates cannot be evaluated in a vacuum.
matthewmacleod 8y ago
How does one define “best person?” Is a female candidate of the age and life situation that she’s likely to become pregnant soon less suitable? After all, she might be about to take extended maternity leave! Better not risk it. Is the candidate with a strong foreign accent less suitable? Maybe the project managers will struggle to communicate as effectively. Not worth the bother. Is the candidate who lacks a degree worse? They seemed good in the interviews, but maybe there are holes in their knowledge. Why bother? That gay guy was a bit flamboyant. The sales bros might not be into it. Pass. That view rapidly invites monoculture. It’s easier to hire people who are similar to yourself. In reality, diversity is in itself a desirable attribute for a team to have. Teams with a variety of backgrounds have different experience that contributes to solving problems in different ways. They will know things that you don’t, and your products will be better for that contribution.
- manfredo 8y ago
  The best person is defined as the one that has the best capability to contribute. None of the items you mentioned affects this factor (aside from the first, but making a decision based on that is illegal).
forapurpose 8y ago
> I don't feel the diversity should be sought for its own sake. The best applicant should be hired every single time - although I do feel that it is okay to consider diversity as a tie-breaker when choosing between equally qualified candidates. That would be ideal, but that's not how hiring works. If it was, we'd have a far more diverse workforce. On the first day of hiring 101, they teach you that people tend to hire others who are like themselves; it's just instinct. I've had recruiters bring me candidates who all were the same race and gender as I am, and within about 5 years of my age. I didn't even realize it until I thought about that principle. But even more than that, people hire others that they know, and the people we know are dictated by the established social structure. Thus the structure is self-reinforcing, unless you actively do something to stop it, you perpetuate it. Upper middle-class white guys generally don't know many black or Latino people; they know other guys like themselves from growing up, from college, etc., so that's who they do business with. Steve Ballmer got his job because he knew Bill Gates at Harvard; what was the chance that Gates' classmate was going to be black or Latino, or that his buddy would be a woman? Dropbox initially got an intro to YC because Drew Houston had been big brother in an MIT fraternity to another YC founder.[0] How diverse is that fraternity? There's zero chance of the big brother being female; is the chance much higher of being black or Latino? Drew did a great job, but how many Drews are out there that never got the chance? Given that white guys are ~33% of the U.S. population but the overwhelming number of founders, CEOs, etc., I'd guess most 'Drews' never get an opportunity. (Worldwide the number is far greater, of course.) [0] https://blog.ycombinator.com/congratsdropbox/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/congratsdropbox/

grigjd3 8y ago

It is really hard to measure why people are or aren't hired. Why do I have product managers that can't write a complete sentence or even use a consistent vocabulary? Were they the best choices? I don't think so, but there is a lot of factors that go into e decision.

kolpa 8y ago

Team projects are not individual activities; therefore candidates cannot be evaluated in a vacuum.

matthewmacleod 8y ago

How does one define “best person?” Is a female candidate of the age and life situation that she’s likely to become pregnant soon less suitable? After all, she might be about to take extended maternity leave! Better not risk it. Is the candidate with a strong foreign accent less suitable? Maybe the project managers will struggle to communicate as effectively. Not worth the bother. Is the candidate who lacks a degree worse? They seemed good in the interviews, but maybe there are holes in their knowledge. Why bother? That gay guy was a bit flamboyant. The sales bros might not be into it. Pass. That view rapidly invites monoculture. It’s easier to hire people who are similar to yourself. In reality, diversity is in itself a desirable attribute for a team to have. Teams with a variety of backgrounds have different experience that contributes to solving problems in different ways. They will know things that you don’t, and your products will be better for that contribution.

manfredo 8y ago
The best person is defined as the one that has the best capability to contribute. None of the items you mentioned affects this factor (aside from the first, but making a decision based on that is illegal).

forapurpose 8y ago

> I don't feel the diversity should be sought for its own sake. The best applicant should be hired every single time - although I do feel that it is okay to consider diversity as a tie-breaker when choosing between equally qualified candidates. That would be ideal, but that's not how hiring works. If it was, we'd have a far more diverse workforce. On the first day of hiring 101, they teach you that people tend to hire others who are like themselves; it's just instinct. I've had recruiters bring me candidates who all were the same race and gender as I am, and within about 5 years of my age. I didn't even realize it until I thought about that principle. But even more than that, people hire others that they know, and the people we know are dictated by the established social structure. Thus the structure is self-reinforcing, unless you actively do something to stop it, you perpetuate it. Upper middle-class white guys generally don't know many black or Latino people; they know other guys like themselves from growing up, from college, etc., so that's who they do business with. Steve Ballmer got his job because he knew Bill Gates at Harvard; what was the chance that Gates' classmate was going to be black or Latino, or that his buddy would be a woman? Dropbox initially got an intro to YC because Drew Houston had been big brother in an MIT fraternity to another YC founder.[0] How diverse is that fraternity? There's zero chance of the big brother being female; is the chance much higher of being black or Latino? Drew did a great job, but how many Drews are out there that never got the chance? Given that white guys are ~33% of the U.S. population but the overwhelming number of founders, CEOs, etc., I'd guess most 'Drews' never get an opportunity. (Worldwide the number is far greater, of course.) [0] https://blog.ycombinator.com/congratsdropbox/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/congratsdropbox/