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Facebook ads genuinely add value though. 78% of randomly polled US consumers discovered a new product that interested them on Facebook: https://image.slideshare
by cm2012 8y ago
Facebook ads genuinely add value though. 78% of randomly polled US consumers discovered a new product that interested them on Facebook: https://image.slidesharecdn.com/internettrendsreport2018-180530164809/95/internet-trends-report-2018-71-1024.jpg?cb=1527698933 https://image.slidesharecdn.com/internettrendsreport2018-180... (From Mary Meeker's 2018 report).
- swsieber 8y agoBut how much value do they also take away? My bet is that they are a net drain.
- neogodless 8y agoJust because someone is convinced to part with their money does not mean they meaningfully added value to their life. Certainly generates value for Facebook and retail, though.
- cm2012 8y agoAh, yes, because we brilliant hacker news readers know that the average person is too stupid to know what things they should buy or not buy.
- mfringel 8y agoThat's not my interpretation of that comment. To wit: There are only a few things you can know about someone clicking 'buy' as the result of an ad: 1. The ad platform booked top-line revenue 2. The seller booked top-line revenue 3. The buyer exchanged money for something they thought was worth it at the time of purchase. That's it. Even #3 is conjecture, but it's likely enough that I'm willing to run with it for sake of argument. We do not, and short of asking, can not know if that purchase added value to the buyer's life.
- redditmigrant 8y agoIf they themselves say they discovered a product that they were interested in, how is that not value addition? Value isnt defined in your advertising free ivory tower.
- kelnos 8y agoIt isn't defined in your ad-filled cesspool, either. I don't see convincing someone to buy something as an absolute positive value. There's nuance. Making someone aware of a product that will genuinely improve their life is great, but most ads in my experience are more like drug pushers.
- simonbarker87 8y agoThey are also phenomenally effective for retailers selling products, if you are slightly out of the mainstream and people aren't Googling you then your only web option is facebook and we have found it gives an excellent ROI.
- mlthoughts2018 8y agoThis would not distinguish whether behavior tracking to algorithmically personalize ads ends up being better than just naive ads based on page-level content or other data unrelated a person or the person's behavior. What you're describing for non-mainstream sellers is just gains from internet-scale distribution platforms, whether it's Facebook or Reddit or whatever. It lets the little guy reach lots of people on a much smaller ad budget because of the distribution technology and a platform's ability to grow a large network of users. Whatever benefit there is might have nothing to do with Facebook (or any specific company) and have nothing to do with tracking users to target ads at them. It might just be "the internet is a big lever" that lets smaller sellers more easily reach people generally. That might be argument that ads, in general, can be valuable on Facebook. But it might be the case that the extra effort of personalizing them does not add further value, while it does have downsides with data privacy, tracking, unwanted ads, etc.
- cm2012 8y agoYou can test this yourself easily on facebook. Just target a blank audience of all users vs a lookalike audience FB builds for you algorithmically. The latter works much, much better at generating sales for almost everyone.
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago> "The latter works much, much better at generating sales for almost everyone." This seems like an extraordinary claim that would require extraordinary statistical evidence to believe it. Both evidence to ensure the methodology of comparing whatever Facebook does with blank audience ad serving to whatever is done with lookalike audiences, as well as the "much, much better" part and the "almost everyone" part. For example, with Google and Facebook controlling so much of all advertising traffic, it could easily be the case that 'blank audience' ad purchasing (which is less in Facebook's interest, since it doesn't help highlight their specialized data products) are directed towards users with less likelihood to engage to begin with, regardless of algorithmic profile or interests. Do we have any knowledge of the precise differences of the two treatments (blank vs. digital lookalike)? If not, how could we even begin to attribute success seen in the 'lookalike' category to any value-add from Facebook? As opposed to possibly gaming the different user groups to make such an A/B test always tilt in their favor.
- dhawalhs 8y agoThe slide says just that people have bought stuff they found on "Social Media". Doesn't mention that these are through ads or any indication of "Facebook ads genuinely add value though".
- mlthoughts2018 8y agoThe net value of Facebook ads would roughly be taking some measure of how much it helps minus some measure of how much it hurts. You posted some way of roughly approximating how much it helps. But looking at metrics like this in isolation is meaningless and there's no useful interpretation except for people (such as in the ad business) whose utility function for this topic only depends on the upside component. Society at large also depends on downside components, like how much psychological drag the pervasive ads generate, how many people are deceived or manipulated into mis-wanting something purely because of ad repetition, how many times are ML-based personalized ads miscalculated, leaving a consumer to experience inappropriate or irrelevant ads because of algorithm malfunction. How much extra cognitive effort is required to maintain browsing solutions that mitigate tracking. How much of the ad experience facilitates addiction to mobile phones. And so on. I am not claiming that I have a great way to roughly quantify these, but you could. For example, you could do eye-tracking and phone usage studies and try to roughly compute the amount of extra app time that is attributable to dealing with unwanted ads or app time attributable to ad-linked addictive behavior, and then estimate up what some average case cost of that time would be at a median salary or something, to roughly value that time. Or you could gather statistics on how accurate data-based ad personalization is and how often someone spends time costs processing misclassified ad categories they self-report as not relevant. I conjecture that the financial cost of that lost time (which is an under-estimate that doesn't factor in other psychological drag or second order effects) would, when aggregated over hundreds of millions or billions of people, add up to waaay more cost that what the offsetting value from effective ads and product discoveries offered, meaning that from a perspective other than the consumer corporations that profit from the transactions, it would look like a giant net loss for society.
- wybiral 8y agoAre those statistics a direct result of promoted content on those platforms or a combination of that with normal word of mouth from peers on those platforms?
- mr_toad 8y agoI doubt that 78% of Facebook subscribers had money just burning a hole in their pocket. Advertising is just borrowing from Peter to pay Paul.