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I work in Utah Valley at a tech startup in the space. While I agree that there are some startups with 'inferiority complex' etc, there is a growing number who

I work in Utah Valley at a tech startup in the space. While I agree that there are some startups with 'inferiority complex' etc, there is a growing number who are happy and proud to be a Utah startup and what that entails, not just chasing Silicon Valley. The instant connection to MLMs is unfortunate and something we are trying to move past. I would argue Utah has a very strong sales culture not solely because of MLMs but for other reasons.

NorthOf33rd 8y ago
Pluralsight being a prime example of a proud Utah startup focused on making a quality product with great management. The instant connection to MLM's is unfortunate but it's real. It's not something that can be moved past unless there's meaningful change. I would argue there hasn't been meaningful change. If anything they've gained strength and notoriety see vivent, domo, etc. Would love to be convinced otherwise that meaningful change has come or is coming. As far as a strong sales culture, I agree. MLM's are prevalent in Utah because of the sales culture. Not the inverse.
phamilton 8y ago
> other reasons Like door to door summer sales, and the massive bro culture associated with that. That gripe aside, there are a lot of lifestyle companies. And it's great. They aren't chasing silicon valley, they are just some small business owners trying to make a good living and provide employment for people in the region.
- tntn 8y ago
  > Like door to door summer sales, and the massive bro culture associated with that. But just sign up, you'll make $50000 in 3 months! /s
  - phamilton 8y ago
    I feel explaining this for everyone not in the know is appropriate. Mormon missionaries are usually young men ages 18-20 who go out into various places around the world for two years. They learn a lot, generally work really hard, and when they return they usually go off to school. Someone figured out that 2 years knocking on doors to talk about God isn't that different from knocking on doors to talk about <insert product here>. Various companies selling pest control, home security systems, etc. have set up summer sales programs. You sign up, get sent to a random city for the summer and sell the crap out of whatever it is you are selling. Top sellers will clear $50k for the summer. Even moderately successful sellers will make $10k or so. After a summer of sales, many of the companies will allow their top sellers to get recruitment bonuses. So they spend the school year holding information meetings with free pizza to try and recruit for the next summer. This leads to a huge bro culture. The top sellers flaunt their success by driving BMWs to school, wearing high end designer watches and stuff. Some of the bigger sales companies even have lounges close to school where sales people can hang out and study. It ends up being very clear who is into summer sales, and most students shake their heads and try to just ignore it all.
    - nobleach 8y ago
      Two of my nieces are out serving their "3 month pest control mission" as I write this. I hope they don't come back promoting the bro culture. In all seriousness though, a few years ago, the bro culture in some of these Utah Valley startups made my job search a literal nightmare.
    - fergie 8y ago
      TIL- thanks!
    - airspace69 8y ago
      Wow - just wow! You nailed it on the head! I've been trying to figure out what was off here, and you succinctly identified the key areas that make the "valley" the way it is! (I'm recently retired from the Air Force, moved here from Hawaii and ended up working in the tech field - I'm also a "member", did the whole missionary thing, and I've been racking my brain trying to figure out why the culture here seems to be so "off" compared to my military background and being around LDS outside of Utah). This place has become a huge multi-marketing campaign with everyone trying to squeeze each other for every buck they can make! Sorry, I better stop my rant! Thanks for the insight though!

NorthOf33rd 8y ago

Pluralsight being a prime example of a proud Utah startup focused on making a quality product with great management. The instant connection to MLM's is unfortunate but it's real. It's not something that can be moved past unless there's meaningful change. I would argue there hasn't been meaningful change. If anything they've gained strength and notoriety see vivent, domo, etc. Would love to be convinced otherwise that meaningful change has come or is coming. As far as a strong sales culture, I agree. MLM's are prevalent in Utah because of the sales culture. Not the inverse.

phamilton 8y ago

> other reasons Like door to door summer sales, and the massive bro culture associated with that. That gripe aside, there are a lot of lifestyle companies. And it's great. They aren't chasing silicon valley, they are just some small business owners trying to make a good living and provide employment for people in the region.

tntn 8y ago
> Like door to door summer sales, and the massive bro culture associated with that. But just sign up, you'll make $50000 in 3 months! /s
- phamilton 8y ago
  I feel explaining this for everyone not in the know is appropriate. Mormon missionaries are usually young men ages 18-20 who go out into various places around the world for two years. They learn a lot, generally work really hard, and when they return they usually go off to school. Someone figured out that 2 years knocking on doors to talk about God isn't that different from knocking on doors to talk about <insert product here>. Various companies selling pest control, home security systems, etc. have set up summer sales programs. You sign up, get sent to a random city for the summer and sell the crap out of whatever it is you are selling. Top sellers will clear $50k for the summer. Even moderately successful sellers will make $10k or so. After a summer of sales, many of the companies will allow their top sellers to get recruitment bonuses. So they spend the school year holding information meetings with free pizza to try and recruit for the next summer. This leads to a huge bro culture. The top sellers flaunt their success by driving BMWs to school, wearing high end designer watches and stuff. Some of the bigger sales companies even have lounges close to school where sales people can hang out and study. It ends up being very clear who is into summer sales, and most students shake their heads and try to just ignore it all.
  - nobleach 8y ago
    Two of my nieces are out serving their "3 month pest control mission" as I write this. I hope they don't come back promoting the bro culture. In all seriousness though, a few years ago, the bro culture in some of these Utah Valley startups made my job search a literal nightmare.
  - fergie 8y ago
    TIL- thanks!
  - airspace69 8y ago
    Wow - just wow! You nailed it on the head! I've been trying to figure out what was off here, and you succinctly identified the key areas that make the "valley" the way it is! (I'm recently retired from the Air Force, moved here from Hawaii and ended up working in the tech field - I'm also a "member", did the whole missionary thing, and I've been racking my brain trying to figure out why the culture here seems to be so "off" compared to my military background and being around LDS outside of Utah). This place has become a huge multi-marketing campaign with everyone trying to squeeze each other for every buck they can make! Sorry, I better stop my rant! Thanks for the insight though!