6 ms·

The OP probably actually doesn't want total control, they just think they do for whichever reason. As for the price, $29/mo + 2.9% for Shopify Basic isn't bad.

by akx 8y ago

The OP probably actually doesn't want total control, they just think they do for whichever reason. As for the price, $29/mo + 2.9% for Shopify Basic isn't bad. It's basically covered (one should hope) by a couple sales per month, especially for bespoke stitching products.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
exodust 8y ago
So when someone says they "want total control", your response is "no you don't". Wow. Are you a sales rep for Shopify? That $30 per month fee is bad.
- akx 8y ago
  No, my response was that they _probably_ don't, if they'd evaluate that viewpoint further. Especially as a software dev/engineer, it's all too easy to think that you need absolute control. And no, now that you ask, no I'm not. I _have_ been the lead developer for at least 3 e-commerce systems though, so I know it's not trivial. Why do you think the fee is "bad"?
  - exodust 8y ago
    Because... it's a craft e-store, never going to have a lot of revenue; $30 per month is $30 less for buying food; also Shopify take a cut of each sale, so it's a regular double whammy and that sucks. And the owner will be a creative person, and they are usually fussy/particular/perfectionists regarding visual presentation of their artwork/brand/style/look and feel. I know, I've built online stores for artists. The attention to detail requests didn't stop. Fortunately I had total control over the store right up until payment gateway, so it was fine. Some small businesses are looking to set up shop properly more than quickly. Anyway, these are all opinions, I'm just sharing mine.
    - yazan94 8y ago
      Well what would you do instead? Assuming that OP will build the site for free, the shop owner still needs to pay for hosting (assume $5 droplet at Digital Ocean), domain name (assume ~$10 from Namecheap), and a payment processor (assuming Paypal, (2.9% + 0.30) / transaction). Considering all of this is abstracted away and handled for you for $30, doesn't sound that bad. We haven't even touched on headaches from future maintenance, bugs, features, scaling, etc.
      - exodust 8y ago
        You've included "domain name" in the list of things Shopify does for $30, and you'd be wrong about that. It's an extra expense. And not only that, but the $30 plan doesn't provide "professional reports" which most businesses would want. Exporting invoice data as CSV, or to accounting software, backup of database etc. These are things I would advise a business needs. I never said build the whole CMS/store platform from scratch. I would use something like Perch which is a CMS with shop-addon that allows you to build the site and store normally, then integrate easily into a shop. It's possible to be up and running quickly using a basic shared hosted platform as the host - which is all you need at first. The day that "scaling" is needed is the day you ask your web host to put your mySQL e-store site on a better shared hosting plan with more RAM and more CPU... wow, what a huge effort! Or go VPS or something. Easy. Every used mySqL? It actually works quite well believe it or not. Cheap, easy, not a headache. We can argue all day about the details, but in the end you are advocating a microwave dinner as the solution for a small business wanting to make an impact and good impression with new customers. I am advocating something a lot better.
- Can_Not 8y ago
  > That $30 per month fee is bad. Sounds pretty cheap compared to donating $20,000 worth of weekends to your friend for a half baked ecommerce CMS. Maybe the business should exist first and prove total control is necessary before sinking a huge unpredictable labor-cost into it.
  - exodust 8y ago
    That's exaggerating things and distorting the intention. It's for his friend's craft "business", not some client who needs a copy and paste effort ready by 9am tomorrow. Half baked CMS you say... are you predicting the outcome of an effort under your development? Some people should stick to plug and play solutions because it's their only real option. A friend of mine set up a Woo-commerce site for her boss who ran a shoe shop. The site went up quickly, using templates and "out of the box" things from Woo. Worst store ever. Horrible UX, slow... so slow, click... wait... click... wait. They didn't sell much at all on that site. It was crap. I would not expect better from any plug and play solution, but then again my standards are high for e-commerce stores.
    - Can_Not 8y ago
      > are you predicting the outcome of an effort under your development? That's an ad hominem and still leaves my point of how huge the amount of underestimated work there is. The problem is the volume of work first, the quality of work (by both OP's self-admitted juniorness and by lack of time for a full-time project) second. Also, your standards are high for ecommerce but you don't think a lot of effort is required to do as-good or better than a specific one you didn't like? > It's for his friend's craft "business", not some client who needs a copy and paste effort ready by 9am tomorrow. His friend probably doesn't want to wait a week everytime he thinks of a new basic requirement built into the vast majority of ready to go ecommerce CMSs.
      - exodust 8y ago
        "basic requirement" huh, like exporting customer orders to a format ready to import into accounting software, aka "advanced report writing". Sorry, only available in the $299 per month shopify plan. Look, if you like Shopify... go for it. Me, I would avoid that thing like the plague. I value flexible parameters and increased possibilities over a stifled e-store that pops out the vending machine slot if you remember to feed it $30 a month. Shopify is not for developers, and not for anyone who knows a developer or willing to pay for something better than a microwave dinner experience. That's not just my opinion, it's also how it actually is.
- imhoguy 8y ago
  Both you are right and not right - it all depends. "Total control" is subjective term here. One may find total control with Shopify or Amazon, but another may have an urge to implement in-house DDoS protection or have own power supply.

by akx 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

exodust 8y ago

So when someone says they "want total control", your response is "no you don't". Wow. Are you a sales rep for Shopify? That $30 per month fee is bad.

akx 8y ago
No, my response was that they _probably_ don't, if they'd evaluate that viewpoint further. Especially as a software dev/engineer, it's all too easy to think that you need absolute control. And no, now that you ask, no I'm not. I _have_ been the lead developer for at least 3 e-commerce systems though, so I know it's not trivial. Why do you think the fee is "bad"?
- exodust 8y ago
  Because... it's a craft e-store, never going to have a lot of revenue; $30 per month is $30 less for buying food; also Shopify take a cut of each sale, so it's a regular double whammy and that sucks. And the owner will be a creative person, and they are usually fussy/particular/perfectionists regarding visual presentation of their artwork/brand/style/look and feel. I know, I've built online stores for artists. The attention to detail requests didn't stop. Fortunately I had total control over the store right up until payment gateway, so it was fine. Some small businesses are looking to set up shop properly more than quickly. Anyway, these are all opinions, I'm just sharing mine.
  - yazan94 8y ago
    Well what would you do instead? Assuming that OP will build the site for free, the shop owner still needs to pay for hosting (assume $5 droplet at Digital Ocean), domain name (assume ~$10 from Namecheap), and a payment processor (assuming Paypal, (2.9% + 0.30) / transaction). Considering all of this is abstracted away and handled for you for $30, doesn't sound that bad. We haven't even touched on headaches from future maintenance, bugs, features, scaling, etc.
    - exodust 8y ago
      You've included "domain name" in the list of things Shopify does for $30, and you'd be wrong about that. It's an extra expense. And not only that, but the $30 plan doesn't provide "professional reports" which most businesses would want. Exporting invoice data as CSV, or to accounting software, backup of database etc. These are things I would advise a business needs. I never said build the whole CMS/store platform from scratch. I would use something like Perch which is a CMS with shop-addon that allows you to build the site and store normally, then integrate easily into a shop. It's possible to be up and running quickly using a basic shared hosted platform as the host - which is all you need at first. The day that "scaling" is needed is the day you ask your web host to put your mySQL e-store site on a better shared hosting plan with more RAM and more CPU... wow, what a huge effort! Or go VPS or something. Easy. Every used mySqL? It actually works quite well believe it or not. Cheap, easy, not a headache. We can argue all day about the details, but in the end you are advocating a microwave dinner as the solution for a small business wanting to make an impact and good impression with new customers. I am advocating something a lot better.
Can_Not 8y ago
> That $30 per month fee is bad. Sounds pretty cheap compared to donating $20,000 worth of weekends to your friend for a half baked ecommerce CMS. Maybe the business should exist first and prove total control is necessary before sinking a huge unpredictable labor-cost into it.
- exodust 8y ago
  That's exaggerating things and distorting the intention. It's for his friend's craft "business", not some client who needs a copy and paste effort ready by 9am tomorrow. Half baked CMS you say... are you predicting the outcome of an effort under your development? Some people should stick to plug and play solutions because it's their only real option. A friend of mine set up a Woo-commerce site for her boss who ran a shoe shop. The site went up quickly, using templates and "out of the box" things from Woo. Worst store ever. Horrible UX, slow... so slow, click... wait... click... wait. They didn't sell much at all on that site. It was crap. I would not expect better from any plug and play solution, but then again my standards are high for e-commerce stores.
  - Can_Not 8y ago
    > are you predicting the outcome of an effort under your development? That's an ad hominem and still leaves my point of how huge the amount of underestimated work there is. The problem is the volume of work first, the quality of work (by both OP's self-admitted juniorness and by lack of time for a full-time project) second. Also, your standards are high for ecommerce but you don't think a lot of effort is required to do as-good or better than a specific one you didn't like? > It's for his friend's craft "business", not some client who needs a copy and paste effort ready by 9am tomorrow. His friend probably doesn't want to wait a week everytime he thinks of a new basic requirement built into the vast majority of ready to go ecommerce CMSs.
    - exodust 8y ago
      "basic requirement" huh, like exporting customer orders to a format ready to import into accounting software, aka "advanced report writing". Sorry, only available in the $299 per month shopify plan. Look, if you like Shopify... go for it. Me, I would avoid that thing like the plague. I value flexible parameters and increased possibilities over a stifled e-store that pops out the vending machine slot if you remember to feed it $30 a month. Shopify is not for developers, and not for anyone who knows a developer or willing to pay for something better than a microwave dinner experience. That's not just my opinion, it's also how it actually is.
imhoguy 8y ago
Both you are right and not right - it all depends. "Total control" is subjective term here. One may find total control with Shopify or Amazon, but another may have an urge to implement in-house DDoS protection or have own power supply.