7 ms·

No. You know what sounds nice? Having the choice to not buy a Tesla. I don’t need Government™ to tell me what kind of contracts I can agree to.

nerbert 8y ago
Sure, very simple logic. That is of course until Comcast becomes the only internet provider in your area. I prefer my gov to have my back on those simple things just in case a particular situation that makes it easy for anyone to screw me over arises.
- gonational 8y ago
  OK, let’s see if we can think of one solution to that problem… Oh! Enforce existing anti-trust laws! This, plus the fact that the increasingly monopolistic reality of ISP in the United States is a direct result of overregulation. We don’t need more laws. We need to enforce some of the most basic laws that have existed fore more than a century.
  - snackbugs 8y ago
    In your opinion, what is the perfect number of laws anyone should have? 10^4? 10^5?
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    Unregulated capitalism by no means naturally prevents large monopolies being formed. That's why the government got involved in "trust-busting" in the first place.
smnrchrds 8y ago
> Having the choice to not buy a Tesla. If Tesla's business model proves successful, all other car makers will copy it, and then it doesn't matter which brand you buy. Look at the TV market. You technically have the choice not to buy a "Smart TV," which sells your info to god-knows how many third-parties and spies on you 24/7. But good luck finding one. Sony, Samsung, LG? They all have the same spyware features. Your only option is to buy brandless Chinese TVs with terrible picture and worse sound quality. How long until all manufacturers start acting like Tesla? What choice will we have then? Start walking everywhere like our ancient ancestors?
- cataphract 8y ago
  Can't you just not connect them to the Internet?
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    This is what I did.
  - stordoff 8y ago
    For now, yes, but if the business model is successful enough (particularly for something as expensive as a car), is there anything stopping a manufacturer bundling in their own Internet connection?
  - Nullabillity 8y ago
    The "Smart" software also tends to add a lot of latency, which may or may not be acceptable depending on your circumstances.
  - taejo 8y ago
    You can try. I recently learned that Ethernet-over-HDMI is a thing: now that you know that, you can potentially disable it on the other end of the connection, but lots of people are connecting their TVs to the internet without even knowing.
    - lozaning 8y ago
      The protocol supports it yes, but I think you'd have a hard time finding a single person who has ever inadvertently connected their TV to the internet through HDMI. Hell I think you'd have a hard time finding a TV that even supports this functionality, and if you do my bet is it's a specialty thing made for the hospitality/service industry.
- gimmefreedom 8y ago
  How about create a purchasers’ union and use your collective purchasing power to influence the behavior of companies, the way that companies use their power to control consumers. I don’t have any problem with your union; in fact, I might join such a union. Just don’t force everyone to join it, which is what happens when laws are made for everyone as a result of the bad decisions of some. I don’t know if such a union is legal to form… which I guess illustrates the point that @gonational is trying to make; too many laws can bite you.

nerbert 8y ago

Sure, very simple logic. That is of course until Comcast becomes the only internet provider in your area. I prefer my gov to have my back on those simple things just in case a particular situation that makes it easy for anyone to screw me over arises.

gonational 8y ago
OK, let’s see if we can think of one solution to that problem… Oh! Enforce existing anti-trust laws! This, plus the fact that the increasingly monopolistic reality of ISP in the United States is a direct result of overregulation. We don’t need more laws. We need to enforce some of the most basic laws that have existed fore more than a century.
- snackbugs 8y ago
  In your opinion, what is the perfect number of laws anyone should have? 10^4? 10^5?
- emodendroket 8y ago
  Unregulated capitalism by no means naturally prevents large monopolies being formed. That's why the government got involved in "trust-busting" in the first place.

smnrchrds 8y ago

> Having the choice to not buy a Tesla. If Tesla's business model proves successful, all other car makers will copy it, and then it doesn't matter which brand you buy. Look at the TV market. You technically have the choice not to buy a "Smart TV," which sells your info to god-knows how many third-parties and spies on you 24/7. But good luck finding one. Sony, Samsung, LG? They all have the same spyware features. Your only option is to buy brandless Chinese TVs with terrible picture and worse sound quality. How long until all manufacturers start acting like Tesla? What choice will we have then? Start walking everywhere like our ancient ancestors?

cataphract 8y ago
Can't you just not connect them to the Internet?
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  This is what I did.
- stordoff 8y ago
  For now, yes, but if the business model is successful enough (particularly for something as expensive as a car), is there anything stopping a manufacturer bundling in their own Internet connection?
- Nullabillity 8y ago
  The "Smart" software also tends to add a lot of latency, which may or may not be acceptable depending on your circumstances.
- taejo 8y ago
  You can try. I recently learned that Ethernet-over-HDMI is a thing: now that you know that, you can potentially disable it on the other end of the connection, but lots of people are connecting their TVs to the internet without even knowing.
  - lozaning 8y ago
    The protocol supports it yes, but I think you'd have a hard time finding a single person who has ever inadvertently connected their TV to the internet through HDMI. Hell I think you'd have a hard time finding a TV that even supports this functionality, and if you do my bet is it's a specialty thing made for the hospitality/service industry.
gimmefreedom 8y ago
How about create a purchasers’ union and use your collective purchasing power to influence the behavior of companies, the way that companies use their power to control consumers. I don’t have any problem with your union; in fact, I might join such a union. Just don’t force everyone to join it, which is what happens when laws are made for everyone as a result of the bad decisions of some. I don’t know if such a union is legal to form… which I guess illustrates the point that @gonational is trying to make; too many laws can bite you.