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There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's you

There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours?

kofejnik 8y ago
No, it's my device that creates the data, so it is mine. Otherwise, does the typewriter manufacturer own the stories you type?
- cblades 8y ago
  I don't think that analogy holds up. Maybe: does the typewriter manufacturer own meta data such as letter frequency, average work length, etc that their product calculates based on your usage?
  - kofejnik 8y ago
    No, of course not. Once money exchanged hands, it's not their product, it's mine, as is _all_ of its output, including logs, etc. Otherwise, I'd call it 'spyware'.
    - jimmaswell 8y ago
      This already isn't the case in many instances where you don't actually "own" the thing, you just have a license to use it.
- insulanus 8y ago
  I agree that you should own the data that was created because of your interaction with the device, but I do not agree that the reason is that you own the device. Here's an example: You go to the library (or a privately owned web cafe), and write your stories there. It doesn't matter that you don't own the device. It's still your data.
staplers 8y ago
If I kill someone with a hammer, is that the hammer company's liability? If not, then creation of an object (once sold) does not warrant ownership of said product and accompanying data.
cabaalis 8y ago
I have no legal basis for this but it seems apparent to me that there is a difference between data you generate vs data generated for you. For instance, in Microsoft Word if I type a book, I obviously own that data because I myself entered it into the system. However I don't believe I can claim ownership over passive data that was collected during my use of the system.
kinsomo 8y ago
> There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours? That's BS. The real justification for anyone having that right is that 1) the data is about them and 2) they own the machine that collected/created the data. > The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours? They did the work of creating a device for sale. After the sale, their rights to the device end and the data should be owned by the new owner.
vkou 8y ago
Does this mean that when I crash my Tesla into someone, Tesla is liable for it? After all, they did all the work of creating the car...
adrianN 8y ago
If I buy a machine that manufactures widgets I own the widgets. Why should it be different for machines that produce bits?

There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours?

kofejnik 8y ago

No, it's my device that creates the data, so it is mine. Otherwise, does the typewriter manufacturer own the stories you type?

cblades 8y ago
I don't think that analogy holds up. Maybe: does the typewriter manufacturer own meta data such as letter frequency, average work length, etc that their product calculates based on your usage?
- kofejnik 8y ago
  No, of course not. Once money exchanged hands, it's not their product, it's mine, as is _all_ of its output, including logs, etc. Otherwise, I'd call it 'spyware'.
  - jimmaswell 8y ago
    This already isn't the case in many instances where you don't actually "own" the thing, you just have a license to use it.
insulanus 8y ago
I agree that you should own the data that was created because of your interaction with the device, but I do not agree that the reason is that you own the device. Here's an example: You go to the library (or a privately owned web cafe), and write your stories there. It doesn't matter that you don't own the device. It's still your data.

staplers 8y ago

If I kill someone with a hammer, is that the hammer company's liability? If not, then creation of an object (once sold) does not warrant ownership of said product and accompanying data.

cabaalis 8y ago

I have no legal basis for this but it seems apparent to me that there is a difference between data you generate vs data generated for you. For instance, in Microsoft Word if I type a book, I obviously own that data because I myself entered it into the system. However I don't believe I can claim ownership over passive data that was collected during my use of the system.

kinsomo 8y ago

> There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours? That's BS. The real justification for anyone having that right is that 1) the data is about them and 2) they own the machine that collected/created the data. > The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours? They did the work of creating a device for sale. After the sale, their rights to the device end and the data should be owned by the new owner.

vkou 8y ago

Does this mean that when I crash my Tesla into someone, Tesla is liable for it? After all, they did all the work of creating the car...

adrianN 8y ago

If I buy a machine that manufactures widgets I own the widgets. Why should it be different for machines that produce bits?