4 ms·

>Why is it so hard for a laptop maker to not completely fuck up software? the demand for $400 laptops means you gotta sell out somewhere, sadly. the first thin

>Why is it so hard for a laptop maker to not completely fuck up software? the demand for $400 laptops means you gotta sell out somewhere, sadly. the first thing i always do when a family member gets a new laptop is ask to see it first thing so i can format and reinstall windows. some of those oem-added bloatwares are downright toxic

ginko 8y ago
Tecras definitely weren't $400 laptops. That was Toshiba's business line. Especially not 7-8 years ago.
- zormino 8y ago
  There's no good excuse for it. Especially not in a business line. I bought a $200 laptop recently that came with very little bloatware, there is zero need ever to turn my laptop / phone into a swamp of poorly coded garbage. After replacing the 'fresh' Win10 install with Ubuntu, there was an extra 10 GB free on my 32 GB drive...
  - tomsmeding 8y ago
    I believe that even without all the crapware, a Windows installation with all bells ans whistles is still quite a bit bigger than your average Linux installation, even Ubuntu. Although I agree that 10 GB is really a lot.
    - mehrdadn 8y ago
      CompactOS can dramatically cut down space usage without any apparent (as far as I'm able to tell) slow-down.
  - wirrbel 8y ago
    The only explanation I can imagine in my mind is a pretty flawed incentive system with these OEMs. I guess some people are rewarded in some way, by bringing in some additional thing into the laptop's default installation that brings another dollar per piece.
    - acdha 8y ago
      That's exactly what happens: say profits are stable, as you'd expect in a mature, relatively efficient market. You're the product manager and can tell your boss that revenue is stable or that you're getting an extra $20/unit kickback from bundling adware like Superfish or a McAfee trial. Your annual bonus depends on whether that number moves up or down and you believe that most people decide what computer to buy by sorting by price. What do you do?
WorldMaker 8y ago
I'm a fan of the "Signature Edition" program that Microsoft leads that forces off-the-shelf clean Windows installs. (It's an official program at Microsoft's own Stores, applied to all their systems, but you can ask and/or secret handshake for one at other retailers like Best Buy and Staples.) OEMs mostly don't want you to do apples-to-apples comparisons of models between retail stores, but the last time I put the effort into the math it seemed like almost exactly a $50 premium from the bloatware model to the Signature Edition version of that same model.
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  the bad news is microsoft has begun bundling their own crapware and ads into windows installs.
  - acct1771 8y ago
    That's GREAT news. Destroys the illusion. Hello, open source citizen revolution.
    - crtasm 8y ago
      We can hope, but in my experience people are used to flashy adverts on websites and don't question their start menu joining in the party.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
xtian 8y ago
Have you reinstalled Windows lately? A vanilla Windows 10 install comes preloaded with a dozen crappy third-party demo/F2P apps (including Candy Crush) which you have to remove one by one. The question is not why laptop makers bundle crapware, but why frivolous and user-hostile design decisions are considered acceptable in the Windows PC space as a whole.
- mjevans 8y ago
  They don't //stay// removed and new crap is constantly pushed down the pipe. I've given up.
- city41 8y ago
  Because there isn't any competition. Your average user will never use Linux, and Apple will never sell $400 laptops.
closeparen 8y ago
>the first thing i always do when a family member gets a new laptop is ask to see it first thing so i can format and reinstall windows With what? If you use a standard Windows image, it won't activate. If you use the manufacturer's recovery procedure, all the crapware comes back.
- crtasm 8y ago
  Why wouldn't it activate for you? There's a standard ISO download from MS and you don't even need to type in a product key now that's stored in the bios.
  - closeparen 8y ago
    Hmm, I last tried this in the Windows 7 days with one of those ISOs from MS. The license key on the sticker didn't work, and neither did punching it into the activation phone line.
    - crtasm 8y ago
      Yes I've run into that with 7, these days I've even managed to activate 10 with a win7 OEM key. The website refused it but it was accepted when booting the downloaded installer.

ginko 8y ago

Tecras definitely weren't $400 laptops. That was Toshiba's business line. Especially not 7-8 years ago.

zormino 8y ago
There's no good excuse for it. Especially not in a business line. I bought a $200 laptop recently that came with very little bloatware, there is zero need ever to turn my laptop / phone into a swamp of poorly coded garbage. After replacing the 'fresh' Win10 install with Ubuntu, there was an extra 10 GB free on my 32 GB drive...
- tomsmeding 8y ago
  I believe that even without all the crapware, a Windows installation with all bells ans whistles is still quite a bit bigger than your average Linux installation, even Ubuntu. Although I agree that 10 GB is really a lot.
  - mehrdadn 8y ago
    CompactOS can dramatically cut down space usage without any apparent (as far as I'm able to tell) slow-down.
- wirrbel 8y ago
  The only explanation I can imagine in my mind is a pretty flawed incentive system with these OEMs. I guess some people are rewarded in some way, by bringing in some additional thing into the laptop's default installation that brings another dollar per piece.
  - acdha 8y ago
    That's exactly what happens: say profits are stable, as you'd expect in a mature, relatively efficient market. You're the product manager and can tell your boss that revenue is stable or that you're getting an extra $20/unit kickback from bundling adware like Superfish or a McAfee trial. Your annual bonus depends on whether that number moves up or down and you believe that most people decide what computer to buy by sorting by price. What do you do?

WorldMaker 8y ago

I'm a fan of the "Signature Edition" program that Microsoft leads that forces off-the-shelf clean Windows installs. (It's an official program at Microsoft's own Stores, applied to all their systems, but you can ask and/or secret handshake for one at other retailers like Best Buy and Staples.) OEMs mostly don't want you to do apples-to-apples comparisons of models between retail stores, but the last time I put the effort into the math it seemed like almost exactly a $50 premium from the bloatware model to the Signature Edition version of that same model.

throwaway2048 8y ago
the bad news is microsoft has begun bundling their own crapware and ads into windows installs.
- acct1771 8y ago
  That's GREAT news. Destroys the illusion. Hello, open source citizen revolution.
  - crtasm 8y ago
    We can hope, but in my experience people are used to flashy adverts on websites and don't question their start menu joining in the party.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

xtian 8y ago

Have you reinstalled Windows lately? A vanilla Windows 10 install comes preloaded with a dozen crappy third-party demo/F2P apps (including Candy Crush) which you have to remove one by one. The question is not why laptop makers bundle crapware, but why frivolous and user-hostile design decisions are considered acceptable in the Windows PC space as a whole.

mjevans 8y ago
They don't //stay// removed and new crap is constantly pushed down the pipe. I've given up.
city41 8y ago
Because there isn't any competition. Your average user will never use Linux, and Apple will never sell $400 laptops.

closeparen 8y ago

>the first thing i always do when a family member gets a new laptop is ask to see it first thing so i can format and reinstall windows With what? If you use a standard Windows image, it won't activate. If you use the manufacturer's recovery procedure, all the crapware comes back.

crtasm 8y ago
Why wouldn't it activate for you? There's a standard ISO download from MS and you don't even need to type in a product key now that's stored in the bios.
- closeparen 8y ago
  Hmm, I last tried this in the Windows 7 days with one of those ISOs from MS. The license key on the sticker didn't work, and neither did punching it into the activation phone line.
  - crtasm 8y ago
    Yes I've run into that with 7, these days I've even managed to activate 10 with a win7 OEM key. The website refused it but it was accepted when booting the downloaded installer.