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> OpenGL is only outdated on macOS Also on Windows. Apparently, if you want to distribute your software to wide audience, you can only rely on OpenGL 3.0, wit

> OpenGL is only outdated on macOS Also on Windows. Apparently, if you want to distribute your software to wide audience, you can only rely on OpenGL 3.0, with minimal set of extensions. Here’s an example: https://github.com/Const-me/GL3Windows#building-and-running https://github.com/Const-me/GL3Windows#building-and-running All the target systems had latest Windows updates, and they all run Direct3D 11 software just fine (I mostly develop for D3D and I test on them). On some systems it works in 10.1 compatibility mode, MS calls that “feature levels”. Not a big deal in practice, the majority of D3D11 stuff still works OK.

HelloNurse 8y ago
No. Both ATI and Nvidia drivers include recent OpenGL versions, so OpenGL support problems are limited to actually not capable hardware. In the old link you offer as example, Intel HD3000 and HD4000 are bad, with bad drivers that lie about OpenGL versions (hence the need to downgrade the client), and fortunately obsolete. Current Intel integrated graphics have improved. And VMware is a virtual machine, not hardware; it should be expected to be terrible.
- Const-me 8y ago
  > Intel HD3000 and HD4000 are bad, with bad drivers that lie about OpenGL versions Technically that’s probably true. However, if you drop support of Intel GPUs, your GL4+ software will no longer run on a huge count of older Windows laptops people are still using. For many kinds of software this is a bad tradeoff. That’s exactly why all modern browsers implement WebGL on top of Direct3D, and overwhelming majority of multi-platform games and 3D apps use D3D when running on Windows. > VMware is a virtual machine, not hardware; it should be expected to be terrible. It’s only terrible for OpenGL. The virtual GPU driver uses host GPU to render stuff, and it runs D3D11-based software just fine. I don’t use it for gaming but it’s nice to be able to use a VM to reproduce and fix bugs in my software caused by outdated OS, windows localizations, and other environmental factors.
  - kllrnohj 8y ago
    That's not why they do that at all. They don't need anything recent from OpenGL or Direct3D, which is why they target DX9. And DX9 specifically is targetted because that also works on XP, which D3D10 doesn't. Intel GPUs D3D drivers have historically been better than their OpenGL ones (which isn't saying much since their D3D drivers are also trash), but now we're talking driver quality of one player which has nothing to do with the API itself or opengl somehow being outdated on windows. But ANGLE also targets desktop OpenGL (and vulkan), and as OpenGL 4.3 adoption increases I'd expect increasingly more browsers to use it for WebGL 2.0 since you don't need translation there at all. OpenGL 4.3 provides full compatibility with OpenGL ES 3.0. You seem to be pretty confused on how OpenGL versions line up with the D3D ones, too. For reference OpenGL 3.1 is roughly equivalent to D3D 10.1. When you're complaining about only getting GL 3.1, you're also complaining about being stuck with D3D 10.1
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Yeah, but that software won't run inside Windows containers, like the store, or work with the Visual Layer Engine in W10.
kllrnohj 8y ago
No, you're getting stuck at 3.0 because you're hitting the deprecation strategy. You need to specifically request a post-3.0 context with wglCreateContextAttribsARB which you're not doing. Thus the system thinks you're an old legacy OpenGL app, and is giving you 3.0 as that was the last version before things were removed. See: https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Tutorial:_OpenGL_3.1_The_First_Triangle_(C++/Win) https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Tutorial:_OpenGL_3.1_The... for a tutorial. My Pascal-based Nvidia GPU is showing OpenGL 4.6 on Windows 10. Nothing outdated here.
- Const-me 8y ago
  > No, you're getting stuck at 3.0 because you're hitting the deprecation strategy. I think you’re wrong here. Two reasons. 1. If that would be the case, I would be stuck with GL3.0 regardless on the GPU. In reality, I’m only stuck with GL version < 4.0 on HD2000 and VmWare. On my desktop PC (Maxwell at the time I’ve wrote that demo) OpenGL 4.0 worked just fine in that very project. Even on Intel HD 4000 laptop, OpenGL 4.0 worked just fine with the same code. 2. Please read Intel’s documentation: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005524/graphics-drivers.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000... Specifically, please expand “2nd Generation Intel® Core™ Processors” section. As you see in that table, Intel says HD Graphics 3000/2000 only support OpenGL 3.1, which is exactly what I’m getting from the GLEW library I’m using in that project. Also, you can see in that article that no intel GPU supports GL 4.6 mentioned by GP. Even the latest generation UHD Graphics 620/630 only support GL 4.5. Meanwhile, they support the latest DirectX 12 for several years already.
  - kllrnohj 8y ago
    > 1. If that would be the case, I would be stuck with GL3.0 regardless on the GPU. In reality, I’m only stuck with GL version < 4.0 on HD2000 and VmWare. On my desktop PC (Maxwell at the time I’ve wrote that demo) OpenGL 4.0 worked just fine in that very project. Even on Intel HD 4000 laptop, OpenGL 4.0 worked just fine with the same code. Behavior depends on if the device supports 3.2+ compatibility mode which is optional. You're hitting the legacy path, that's well-defined ( https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenGL/extensions/ARB/WGL_ARB_create_context.txt https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenGL/extensions/ARB/WGL_A... ). You need to use the method I mentioned to get real post-3.0 OpenGL. > Also, you can see in that article that no intel GPU supports GL 4.6 mentioned by GP. Even the latest generation UHD Graphics 620/630 only support GL 4.5. Meanwhile, they support the latest DirectX 12 for several years already. ok, so? 4.5 isn't really outdated, either. It still supports all the modern good stuff. And, as we've established at this point, it's not Window's stopping you from leveraging the full extent of the hardware you have. By contrast macOS does stop you from using the hardware you got to the fullest, as it's stuck on 4.1

HelloNurse 8y ago

No. Both ATI and Nvidia drivers include recent OpenGL versions, so OpenGL support problems are limited to actually not capable hardware. In the old link you offer as example, Intel HD3000 and HD4000 are bad, with bad drivers that lie about OpenGL versions (hence the need to downgrade the client), and fortunately obsolete. Current Intel integrated graphics have improved. And VMware is a virtual machine, not hardware; it should be expected to be terrible.

Const-me 8y ago
> Intel HD3000 and HD4000 are bad, with bad drivers that lie about OpenGL versions Technically that’s probably true. However, if you drop support of Intel GPUs, your GL4+ software will no longer run on a huge count of older Windows laptops people are still using. For many kinds of software this is a bad tradeoff. That’s exactly why all modern browsers implement WebGL on top of Direct3D, and overwhelming majority of multi-platform games and 3D apps use D3D when running on Windows. > VMware is a virtual machine, not hardware; it should be expected to be terrible. It’s only terrible for OpenGL. The virtual GPU driver uses host GPU to render stuff, and it runs D3D11-based software just fine. I don’t use it for gaming but it’s nice to be able to use a VM to reproduce and fix bugs in my software caused by outdated OS, windows localizations, and other environmental factors.
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  That's not why they do that at all. They don't need anything recent from OpenGL or Direct3D, which is why they target DX9. And DX9 specifically is targetted because that also works on XP, which D3D10 doesn't. Intel GPUs D3D drivers have historically been better than their OpenGL ones (which isn't saying much since their D3D drivers are also trash), but now we're talking driver quality of one player which has nothing to do with the API itself or opengl somehow being outdated on windows. But ANGLE also targets desktop OpenGL (and vulkan), and as OpenGL 4.3 adoption increases I'd expect increasingly more browsers to use it for WebGL 2.0 since you don't need translation there at all. OpenGL 4.3 provides full compatibility with OpenGL ES 3.0. You seem to be pretty confused on how OpenGL versions line up with the D3D ones, too. For reference OpenGL 3.1 is roughly equivalent to D3D 10.1. When you're complaining about only getting GL 3.1, you're also complaining about being stuck with D3D 10.1
pjmlp 8y ago
Yeah, but that software won't run inside Windows containers, like the store, or work with the Visual Layer Engine in W10.

kllrnohj 8y ago

No, you're getting stuck at 3.0 because you're hitting the deprecation strategy. You need to specifically request a post-3.0 context with wglCreateContextAttribsARB which you're not doing. Thus the system thinks you're an old legacy OpenGL app, and is giving you 3.0 as that was the last version before things were removed. See: https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Tutorial:_OpenGL_3.1_The_First_Triangle_(C++/Win) https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Tutorial:_OpenGL_3.1_The... for a tutorial. My Pascal-based Nvidia GPU is showing OpenGL 4.6 on Windows 10. Nothing outdated here.

Const-me 8y ago
> No, you're getting stuck at 3.0 because you're hitting the deprecation strategy. I think you’re wrong here. Two reasons. 1. If that would be the case, I would be stuck with GL3.0 regardless on the GPU. In reality, I’m only stuck with GL version < 4.0 on HD2000 and VmWare. On my desktop PC (Maxwell at the time I’ve wrote that demo) OpenGL 4.0 worked just fine in that very project. Even on Intel HD 4000 laptop, OpenGL 4.0 worked just fine with the same code. 2. Please read Intel’s documentation: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005524/graphics-drivers.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000... Specifically, please expand “2nd Generation Intel® Core™ Processors” section. As you see in that table, Intel says HD Graphics 3000/2000 only support OpenGL 3.1, which is exactly what I’m getting from the GLEW library I’m using in that project. Also, you can see in that article that no intel GPU supports GL 4.6 mentioned by GP. Even the latest generation UHD Graphics 620/630 only support GL 4.5. Meanwhile, they support the latest DirectX 12 for several years already.
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  > 1. If that would be the case, I would be stuck with GL3.0 regardless on the GPU. In reality, I’m only stuck with GL version < 4.0 on HD2000 and VmWare. On my desktop PC (Maxwell at the time I’ve wrote that demo) OpenGL 4.0 worked just fine in that very project. Even on Intel HD 4000 laptop, OpenGL 4.0 worked just fine with the same code. Behavior depends on if the device supports 3.2+ compatibility mode which is optional. You're hitting the legacy path, that's well-defined ( https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenGL/extensions/ARB/WGL_ARB_create_context.txt https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenGL/extensions/ARB/WGL_A... ). You need to use the method I mentioned to get real post-3.0 OpenGL. > Also, you can see in that article that no intel GPU supports GL 4.6 mentioned by GP. Even the latest generation UHD Graphics 620/630 only support GL 4.5. Meanwhile, they support the latest DirectX 12 for several years already. ok, so? 4.5 isn't really outdated, either. It still supports all the modern good stuff. And, as we've established at this point, it's not Window's stopping you from leveraging the full extent of the hardware you have. By contrast macOS does stop you from using the hardware you got to the fullest, as it's stuck on 4.1