4 ms·

Apple Headphone, Camera Patents Reveal Obsession With Design Details

28 points by jrwoodruff 16y ago

stcredzero 16y ago
Then how about making earpods/headsets that don't suck and fall apart? (To be fair, I've heard that the Apple in-ear ones are decent, at least to start.)
- doron 16y ago
  Agreed, in terms of Audio quality, the Apple headphones are their worst product.
  - CERTIORARI 16y ago
    In terms of Audio quality, the Apple mouse is even worse.
- ugh 16y ago
  They sound better than the cheap $15 earphones Sony or Philips wills sell you. They are much better than pretty much anything that comes with any other device. They still suck. But they suck less than the competition.
- cstross 16y ago
  Apple's in-ear phones are indeed vastly better than the default earbuds -- in fact, they compare favourably with similarly-priced offerings from Shure and Etymotic, and are competitive on price. I suspect Apple's standard "free" earbuds are actually deliberately bad because they're intended to upsell the customer on a better pair of earphones -- and a customer who's buying in an Apple store will of course be exposed to Apple's in-ear phones as a possible upgrade. (Full disclosure: I use a pair of Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10's which kick the shit out of the Apple ear canal phones ... on the other hand, they're a lot more expensive. In the sub-$100 earphone range, the Apple in-ear phones are fine.)
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    I have a pair of Etymotic ER4P's. http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4.aspx http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4.aspx They are truly reference-class equipment. (My Brain-Age2 word-discrimination score would jump a whopping amount just by using those!) I don't use them unless I'm on a plane, though. In-ear is just too much effort/overhead for me. These Sennheisers had decent sound and folded up to fit in a dandy little case. However, my girlfriend at the time told me that they look so dorky, she didn't want to be seen in public with me wearing them. http://amzn.com/B001NZ8PHQ http://amzn.com/B001NZ8PHQ Then I told her that there's even better sounding headphones (non-iPhone) in the same price range that look even dorkier. She didn't believe me until I sent her the link. http://amzn.com/B00001P4ZH http://amzn.com/B00001P4ZH Apple needs to solve the headphone/headset design problem!
    - Groxx 16y ago
      That last one does deserve a 'wow'. There's just something about them that makes me say 'no'. Grados, on the other hand, are full of gooey retro goodness: http://www.gradolabs.com/product_pages/rs1.htm http://www.gradolabs.com/product_pages/rs1.htm I have an 80, and it's amazing how many random music geeks will start talking to you just because you have them on. Since you've used some: have a recommended starting point for Etymotics? I've been looking for something isolating to complement the I-can-hear-that-ant-tapdancing-through-my-music of the Grados.
      - stcredzero 16y ago
        A coworker of mine had the made-for-iPod Etymotics. (6i) The build quality wasn't even half as good as my ER4's. The ER4's are really robust. I can't imagine them wearing out, ever! The 6i's are an old model, though. I don't know what the newer ones are like. I bought my sister some bluetooth Etymotics which are no longer made. She really liked those. I also have an Ety.com headset, which is really good at what it does. (Allows you to have a phone conversation in really noisy environments.) My advice: try some from a store with a really good return policy. They are not for everyone. Also, I'd just buy the ER4's, unless you want an iPhone headset. They are a very good in-ear phone with superb isolation, especially if you are sitting still, and you can use them to do serious sound work. I've bought mine from http://www.headphone.com/ http://www.headphone.com/. (Not affiliated with them in any way.)
- aweida 16y ago
  My brother in law works at apple, he says that the in_ear headsets are terrible plus twice the cost...
- tvon 16y ago
  I do not recommend the Apple in-ear ones. I got a pair of $15 in-ear headphones that sound much, much beter (compared to the $70 for the Apple set). The Apple pair sounded tinny, which for the price really isn't worth it. Now to find ones that sound good but have a mic+remote... edit: them cheap earbuds that sounded better IMO - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I68BD4/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I68BD4/
  - zzygan 16y ago
    The main problem with the Apple in ears buds is the seal. Fix the seal with some decent buds like http://www.complyfoam.com/Product/T%7B48%7D400 http://www.complyfoam.com/Product/T%7B48%7D400 and the bass comes. Its nearly as good as my westone UM2's that I have. All it took was some cheap foam
    - tvon 16y ago
      Great tip. Unfortunately I lost the Apple earbuds on a trip to Seattle last month.
- qwzybug 16y ago
  The in-ear phones have great sound, but they fall apart after about six months unless you're super OCD about wrapping them up in the case every time.
- smackfu 16y ago
  I just assumed that the rubber was supposed to come off after about a month of use, since it happens so regularly.
protomyth 16y ago
"Obsession with Design Details" lead to high profits.
- edwincheese 16y ago
  However many management people believed that customers don't care design details and it can't sell
  - gloob 16y ago
    It is worth noting that, as evidenced by the fact that (e.g.) Toshiba still sells plenty of computers, many customers really don't care that much about design details. No doubt there are many who do, and no doubt there is a third group that vacillates back and forth depending upon what seems trendy that year or what their friends have or whatever.
    - protomyth 16y ago
      Some of the "no design still sells" can be attributed to "corporate buyer doesn't care about people using what buyer is buying". // I should say that Toshiba does have some good design in some of their products
    - barrkel 16y ago
      I like my Portege, thanks, very low weight (~1.1kg for my model), yet still including DVD writer etc.
TrevorJ 16y ago
I wish this obsession carried over to the UX of some of the more recent software, most notably the new itunes. I'm floored with how many clicks it takes to purchase something in the itunes store these days :(
InclinedPlane 16y ago
Every company has engineers who obsess over every tiny design detail. The trick is having a management structure that allows the good ideas to flourish without getting swamped by all the impractical or unhelpful ideas. This is an incredibly difficult problem which is itself composed of several incredibly difficult problems (related to corporate culture, hiring, promotions, process, etc, etc.) The difficulty of this is easy to see when you compare the fit and finish of the average piece of software or hardware on the market, for example. Most are just agglomerations of feature-sets that have been whacked with a mallet until they fit together roughly and hit with a bit of sandpaper to take off a few of the biggest splinters and sharp corners.

28 points by jrwoodruff 16y ago

Then how about making earpods/headsets that don't suck and fall apart? (To be fair, I've heard that the Apple in-ear ones are decent, at least to start.)

doron 16y ago
Agreed, in terms of Audio quality, the Apple headphones are their worst product.
- CERTIORARI 16y ago
  In terms of Audio quality, the Apple mouse is even worse.
ugh 16y ago
They sound better than the cheap $15 earphones Sony or Philips wills sell you. They are much better than pretty much anything that comes with any other device. They still suck. But they suck less than the competition.
cstross 16y ago
Apple's in-ear phones are indeed vastly better than the default earbuds -- in fact, they compare favourably with similarly-priced offerings from Shure and Etymotic, and are competitive on price. I suspect Apple's standard "free" earbuds are actually deliberately bad because they're intended to upsell the customer on a better pair of earphones -- and a customer who's buying in an Apple store will of course be exposed to Apple's in-ear phones as a possible upgrade. (Full disclosure: I use a pair of Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10's which kick the shit out of the Apple ear canal phones ... on the other hand, they're a lot more expensive. In the sub-$100 earphone range, the Apple in-ear phones are fine.)
- stcredzero 16y ago
  I have a pair of Etymotic ER4P's. http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4.aspx http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4.aspx They are truly reference-class equipment. (My Brain-Age2 word-discrimination score would jump a whopping amount just by using those!) I don't use them unless I'm on a plane, though. In-ear is just too much effort/overhead for me. These Sennheisers had decent sound and folded up to fit in a dandy little case. However, my girlfriend at the time told me that they look so dorky, she didn't want to be seen in public with me wearing them. http://amzn.com/B001NZ8PHQ http://amzn.com/B001NZ8PHQ Then I told her that there's even better sounding headphones (non-iPhone) in the same price range that look even dorkier. She didn't believe me until I sent her the link. http://amzn.com/B00001P4ZH http://amzn.com/B00001P4ZH Apple needs to solve the headphone/headset design problem!
  - Groxx 16y ago
    That last one does deserve a 'wow'. There's just something about them that makes me say 'no'. Grados, on the other hand, are full of gooey retro goodness: http://www.gradolabs.com/product_pages/rs1.htm http://www.gradolabs.com/product_pages/rs1.htm I have an 80, and it's amazing how many random music geeks will start talking to you just because you have them on. Since you've used some: have a recommended starting point for Etymotics? I've been looking for something isolating to complement the I-can-hear-that-ant-tapdancing-through-my-music of the Grados.
    - stcredzero 16y ago
      A coworker of mine had the made-for-iPod Etymotics. (6i) The build quality wasn't even half as good as my ER4's. The ER4's are really robust. I can't imagine them wearing out, ever! The 6i's are an old model, though. I don't know what the newer ones are like. I bought my sister some bluetooth Etymotics which are no longer made. She really liked those. I also have an Ety.com headset, which is really good at what it does. (Allows you to have a phone conversation in really noisy environments.) My advice: try some from a store with a really good return policy. They are not for everyone. Also, I'd just buy the ER4's, unless you want an iPhone headset. They are a very good in-ear phone with superb isolation, especially if you are sitting still, and you can use them to do serious sound work. I've bought mine from http://www.headphone.com/ http://www.headphone.com/. (Not affiliated with them in any way.)
aweida 16y ago
My brother in law works at apple, he says that the in_ear headsets are terrible plus twice the cost...
tvon 16y ago
I do not recommend the Apple in-ear ones. I got a pair of $15 in-ear headphones that sound much, much beter (compared to the $70 for the Apple set). The Apple pair sounded tinny, which for the price really isn't worth it. Now to find ones that sound good but have a mic+remote... edit: them cheap earbuds that sounded better IMO - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I68BD4/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I68BD4/
- zzygan 16y ago
  The main problem with the Apple in ears buds is the seal. Fix the seal with some decent buds like http://www.complyfoam.com/Product/T%7B48%7D400 http://www.complyfoam.com/Product/T%7B48%7D400 and the bass comes. Its nearly as good as my westone UM2's that I have. All it took was some cheap foam
  - tvon 16y ago
    Great tip. Unfortunately I lost the Apple earbuds on a trip to Seattle last month.
qwzybug 16y ago
The in-ear phones have great sound, but they fall apart after about six months unless you're super OCD about wrapping them up in the case every time.
smackfu 16y ago
I just assumed that the rubber was supposed to come off after about a month of use, since it happens so regularly.

protomyth 16y ago

"Obsession with Design Details" lead to high profits.

edwincheese 16y ago
However many management people believed that customers don't care design details and it can't sell
- gloob 16y ago
  It is worth noting that, as evidenced by the fact that (e.g.) Toshiba still sells plenty of computers, many customers really don't care that much about design details. No doubt there are many who do, and no doubt there is a third group that vacillates back and forth depending upon what seems trendy that year or what their friends have or whatever.
  - protomyth 16y ago
    Some of the "no design still sells" can be attributed to "corporate buyer doesn't care about people using what buyer is buying". // I should say that Toshiba does have some good design in some of their products
  - barrkel 16y ago
    I like my Portege, thanks, very low weight (~1.1kg for my model), yet still including DVD writer etc.

TrevorJ 16y ago

I wish this obsession carried over to the UX of some of the more recent software, most notably the new itunes. I'm floored with how many clicks it takes to purchase something in the itunes store these days :(

InclinedPlane 16y ago

Every company has engineers who obsess over every tiny design detail. The trick is having a management structure that allows the good ideas to flourish without getting swamped by all the impractical or unhelpful ideas. This is an incredibly difficult problem which is itself composed of several incredibly difficult problems (related to corporate culture, hiring, promotions, process, etc, etc.) The difficulty of this is easy to see when you compare the fit and finish of the average piece of software or hardware on the market, for example. Most are just agglomerations of feature-sets that have been whacked with a mallet until they fit together roughly and hit with a bit of sandpaper to take off a few of the biggest splinters and sharp corners.